The Doctor That Got Banned For Speaking Out: “We’ve Been Lied To About Medication!” (Dr Aseem Malhotra)

 
Dr Aseem Malhotra is a consultant cardiologist based at the HUM2N clinic in London. He is the best-selling author of books including, ‘The Pioppi Diet’, ‘The 21-Day Immunity Plan’, and ‘A Statin-Free Life’.

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Chapter 1: Intro
0:00From everything I know now, I’ve reluctantly come to the conclusion that the COVID vaccine introduction has had a
0:077 secondscatastrophic net negative effect on society. And this is really most disturbing and I’ve not been public about this before, so I’m going to tell you this for the first time.
0:1515 secondsDr. Aim Malhatra is one of the UK’s leading celebrity heart doctors whose influential research has sparked important conversations about nutrition and exercise and the healthare system.
0:2525 secondsThe Times journalist called me and said, “We’ve got [music] reports now of a 25%
0:2929 secondsincrease in heart attacks in hospitals in Scotland which are unexplained. What do you think about the vaccine?” I was a bit surprised. I said, “What do you mean?” He said, “And to have that deep
0:3737 secondsknowledge and understanding gives me very deep pain.” And medical knowledge is under commercial control. This [music] is the root of the problem. The system is psychopathic when it comes to
0:4646 secondsmaking money. And there [music] is so much harm that comes from drug prescriptions. One credible estimate suggests the third most common cause of death globally after heart disease
0:5454 seconds[music] and cancer is prescribed medications. This is a dirty secret within medicine. We should shift our approach [music] to health from a
1:011 minute, 1 secondpredominantly drug-based model within healthcare to one which is more based upon lifestyle. So what is that? The first thing that needs to be done is by
1:101 minute, 10 seconds2030 it’s estimated that about 23.3 million people will die yearly because of heart disease globally and there are 200 million people taking statins
1:171 minute, 17 seconds[music] around the world. But the increase in life expectancy with statins over a 5year period, 4.2 days.
1:241 minute, 24 secondsHow do I prevent myself ending up on either statins or having a heart attack? This is really important information. So,
1:341 minute, 34 secondsquick one before we get back to this episode. Just give me 30 seconds of your time. Two things I wanted to say. The first thing is a huge thank you for listening and tuning into the show week
1:431 minute, 43 secondsafter week. It means the world to all of us and this really is a dream that we absolutely never had and couldn’t have imagined getting to this place. But secondly, it’s a dream where we feel like we’re only just getting started.
1:531 minute, 53 secondsAnd if you enjoy what we do here, please join the 24% of people who watch this channel regularly and have hit the subscribe button. Means more than I can
2:022 minutes, 2 secondssay. And if you hit that subscribe button, here’s a promise I’m going to make to you. I’m going to do everything in my power to make this show as good as
2:092 minutes, 9 secondsI can now and into the future. We’re going to deliver the guests that you want me to speak to and we’re going to continue to keep doing all of the things you love about this show. Thank you.
2:192 minutes, 19 secondsThank you so much. Back to the episode.
2:222 minutes, 22 seconds[music]
2:242 minutes, 24 secondsDr. Aim,
2:262 minutes, 26 secondsyou’re working on a documentary called First Do No Farm, which will be out shortly. Why did you choose the name for your documentary, First Do No Farm?
2:362 minutes, 36 secondsWell, first and foremost, the credit to that name actually goes to my co-producer, Donal O’Neal, who’s made a number of health documentaries. Um, and he’s a former international athlete. Uh,
2:462 minutes, 46 secondsyou know, and he used to work in marketing and PR, so he’s very good with with slogans and sound bites. Um but it it it totally resonated with with my
2:542 minutes, 54 secondswork and what I’ve been doing probably for well over a decade which is to try and shift um our approach to health from
3:013 minutes, 1 seconda predominantly pharmacologicalbased drug-based model within healthcare to one which is more based upon lifestyle.
Chapter 2: The title for your book, why?
3:103 minutes, 10 secondsAnd that’s because that’s where the best evidence is in terms of improving our health but also in terms of managing the
3:183 minutes, 18 secondshealth care system where there is so much waste where drugs are overprescribed and obviously first do noarm means in the consultation room the
3:273 minutes, 27 secondsideal scenario should be with every patient that if there is a uh non-drug-based way non-farmacological
3:363 minutes, 36 secondsway of managing their illness chronic disease which is the big problem in society right now on healthare systems.
3:423 minutes, 42 secondsUh that should be the primary primary approach. Um as well as highlighting through the title that there is so much harm that comes from drug prescriptions.
3:523 minutes, 52 secondsJust I mean this is something that even brings gasps from audiences when I give talks and lectures all around the world.
3:593 minutes, 59 secondsAnd whenever even I say it, I even think bloody hell, how have we got to this situation? That, you know, one credible estimate suggests the third most common
4:074 minutes, 7 secondscause of death globally after heart disease and cancer is prescribed medications. What your doctor prescribes for you so-called appropriately.
4:164 minutes, 16 secondsmainly because the information which doctors use to make decisions for patients when it’s prescribing drugs
4:244 minutes, 24 secondsinvariably is based upon a gross exaggeration on the safety and the benefits of those drugs
4:334 minutes, 33 secondsand the phrase first do no harm which is the original phrase that you’ve spanned for the title where does that phrase originate from well actually it’s one of the basic
4:414 minutes, 41 secondsprinciples of medical ethics you know as doctors that’s the something that’s almost we indoctr ated or ingrained with whenever we you know practice medicine
4:504 minutes, 50 secondstreat patients um that should be the that’s at the forefront of our minds. It should be at the forefront of our minds.
4:554 minutes, 55 secondsWhat what professionally what is your professional title? Um I’m a consultant cardiologist.
5:025 minutes, 2 secondsWhat does that mean if I So I uh I special so I qualified as a doctor um medical doctor in 2001. Um and
5:095 minutes, 9 secondsthen after um becoming a um I I decided after two or three years of doing my sort of initial post-graduate basic
5:175 minutes, 17 secondstraining in medicine to subsp specialcialize in cardiology which is basically everything to do with the heart and then within that subsp specialcialization of cardiology or
5:265 minutes, 26 secondsspecialization of cardiology I trained in interventional cardiology. Um in layman’s term Steve that means keyhole
5:355 minutes, 35 secondsheart surgery. So that’s what I trained to do.
5:375 minutes, 37 seconds[clears throat]
5:385 minutes, 38 secondsUm and I did that um uh you know up until probably 2014 2015 and then I shifted more towards a more holistic
Chapter 3: Your professional title
5:465 minutes, 46 secondsapproach to managing heart disease especially looking at the science and practicing the evidence base behind how
5:545 minutes, 54 secondslifestyle changes can manage heart disease and even potentially reverse it.
5:585 minutes, 58 secondsYou must have seen a lot of hearts in your time.
6:006 minutesYes. I I I think in terms of I was thinking about this because you know up until 2019 I was you know an NHS doctor.
6:086 minutes, 8 secondsWe’ll come back to later why what happened in 2019 but and that’s my passion. Um but within the NHS which I
6:156 minutes, 15 secondsthink trains doctors brilliantly um it’s a very high intense workload. Um and uh
6:236 minutes, 23 secondsjust to give you perspective on that um you know we have the highest uh capita population per doctors in Europe. So
6:326 minutes, 32 secondsleast number of doctors per uh population in the country um and the most number of doctors on night shift.
6:386 minutes, 38 secondsSo it’s quite intense and because of that I was thinking back in terms of the patients I would see on the wards and the throughput and the people that I
6:456 minutes, 45 secondswould see you know in the what we call cardiac catheter lab where we did the diagnostic angagrams to visualize the heart arteries and we put stances in
6:536 minutes, 53 secondsetc. Over my career I’ve probably managed tens of thousands of patients.
6:586 minutes, 58 secondsWhy did you choose to specialize in the heart versus other parts of the sort of medical um ecosystem that you could have pursued? What was there something?
7:097 minutes, 9 secondsYeah, I don’t know if there’s one answer to that. I think one trigger very early on in my life is um you know I grew up
7:167 minutes, 16 secondsin a medical family. Both my parents were GPS and I had an older brother who had Down syndrome and uh which also meant he had a small
7:247 minutes, 24 secondshole in his heart as well. And when I was 11 and he was 13, shortly after his
7:307 minutes, 30 secondsbirthday um he got a tummy bug. Uh standard tummy bug. We didn’t think anything of it. Within 6 days, Steve um
7:387 minutes, 38 secondshe became breathless and rapidly deteriorated. Got admitted to hospital and had a cardiac arrest and died. And later on it emerged his you know the
Chapter 4: Why did you decide to specialise in the heart?
7:477 minutes, 47 secondspostmortem showed his heart was massively enlarged and essentially had something called viral myocarditis. It can happen actually to anybody. You get
7:547 minutes, 54 secondsa a cold and in one in 10,000 people up to one in 100,000 people. The body then has what we call an autoimmune reaction.
8:038 minutes, 3 secondsinstead of dealing with a cold on its own, it then attacks the heart. And and in a third of those patients, you can basically who get that, they will
8:118 minutes, 11 secondsdeteriorate and they will die. And so I think for me that had such a profound impact on my life. Um and with both parents being doctors, of course, there
8:188 minutes, 18 secondswas a bit of there was no pressure from my parents. They wanted me to, you know, my dad wanted to be a cricketer. But,
8:238 minutes, 23 secondsum, I think that was implanted in my mind that if I was to go into medicine,
8:298 minutes, 29 secondsI wanted to get involved in managing and helping people, you know, or prevent heart disease. So, I think that’s where it started from. It’s interesting cuz when we think about our health,
8:408 minutes, 40 secondsa lot of people think about the amount of weight they have on them. They think,
8:438 minutes, 43 secondsyou know, abdominal fat. They think about how strong they are, their muscles and things like that. Then a lot of the other things are very superficial the sort of measures of our health because
8:528 minutes, 52 secondswe’ve never really seen our heart and it’s similar to our brain because we’ve never seen our heart or our brain we I think we typically devalue the role that
8:598 minutes, 59 secondsthey play in our over overall health but when I was reading some stats around heart disease and how how many people
9:079 minutes, 7 secondsdie from heart disease I was shocked so if we start there then can you give me a sort of macro picture on why it’s
9:159 minutes, 15 secondsimportant to keep our hearts healthy and how um how many people are are dying because of unhealthy hearts.
9:229 minutes, 22 secondsYeah. So globally um it’s estimated and it’s on the increase by uh that certainly by 2030
9:309 minutes, 30 secondsit’s estimated that about 23.3 million people will die um yearly because of heart disease globally right and that’s
9:399 minutes, 39 secondsa huge number and and just to put it in perspective it’s the one of the leading causes of premature death in European men it is the leading cause of premature
9:479 minutes, 47 secondsdeath and uh and that’s why I think it’s so important not just about people’s lives being cut short early. But also
9:549 minutes, 54 secondsthere is an associated morbidity which means the quality of life deterioration that happens with people who are diagnosed with heart disease that may not be able to exercise very much
Chapter 5: How many people are dying because of unhealthy hearts?
10:0310 minutes, 3 secondsbecause they get pain in their chest because of a blockage or they may develop what we call heart failure where the pump function of the heart is affected [snorts] because of blockages
10:1110 minutes, 11 secondsor because of a previous heart attack they survived and therefore they can’t actually do the activities they want to enjoy. And that’s you know way bigger in fact that’s well sorry just as important
10:2010 minutes, 20 secondsas as of course the the premature death rate. So, no, it’s a massive issue. And it’s interesting, Steve, that you you mentioned um the image side where people think about excess body fat and big
10:2810 minutes, 28 secondsmuscles and that kind of thing. And that also plays into a certain culture and mindset that I think detracts from us actually addressing the root cause of
10:3610 minutes, 36 secondsmany problems with society today in our health. Um which is not related to image actually. It’s about the the basics of of uh reducing stress, about our social interactions, etc.
10:4710 minutes, 47 secondsum to some degree obviously what we eat is linked to to how we look but um yeah I mean absolutely I think it’s not something people really think about
10:5510 minutes, 55 secondsenough um often until it’s too late. How does it impact women? Because we mentioned it being the single biggest killer of men, I think, in Europe, you said. What about women?
11:0511 minutes, 5 secondsIt’s um not as bad for women. And part of the reason for that, Steve, is and traditionally women on average will live live up to 10 years longer than men,
11:1611 minutes, 16 secondsright?
11:1611 minutes, 16 secondsAnd the reason for that is that women don’t tend to develop heart disease um at the same age as men. But after the
11:2311 minutes, 23 secondsmenopause, the rates of heart disease actually start to catch up. So even though women will live longer, it’s still a big issue with women as well.
11:3111 minutes, 31 secondsUm, absolutely.
11:3311 minutes, 33 secondsYour mother passed in November 2018 after a bout of sepsis.
11:3811 minutes, 38 secondsThe interesting I read this quote you’d said, I think it was on um on I news.
11:4411 minutes, 44 secondsYou said G you’re a GP that had dedicated 25 years of your life to the NHS and ultimately you failed by it.
Chapter 6: Why do women get fewer heart diseases?
11:5111 minutes, 51 secondsHow were you failed by it?
11:5711 minutes, 57 secondsIn my mom’s circumstance, what happened was, you know, the system was under so much strain. I mean, she had suffered
12:0512 minutes, 5 secondswith a a debilitating rheumatoid and osteoarthritis for many years.
12:0912 minutes, 9 secondsInitially, I think a lot of her health issues were rooted in her weight. I mean, she was addicted to all to processed food. She consumed a lot of
12:1712 minutes, 17 secondssugar. I grew up in a household where there were just cakes and biscuits everywhere. And, you know, she was a very loving mom. Um, but I was addicted to sugar probably because of that as
Chapter 7: The NHS failed you, how?
12:2612 minutes, 26 secondswell for some time. But it affected her health and I and and and I love my mom very very dearly and it was heartbreaking to watch her suffer slowly
12:3312 minutes, 33 secondsover a number of years. But the way she was failed by the NHS specifically is [snorts] that um I had already been campaigning for many many years in terms
12:4112 minutes, 41 secondsof seeing how the system of the NHS was being put under more pressure. a lot of it by diet related disease and there were so many opportunities for us to
12:5012 minutes, 50 secondsthat were being missed to actually improve the system so that doctors could provide quality care to every patient to a good degree. When my mom was admitted
12:5812 minutes, 58 secondsto hospital and she was sick with infection in her spine, she’d become so frail from her arthritis that her immune system probably wasn’t functioning
13:0513 minutes, 5 secondsproperly as well. because the hospital was under so much strain because we had not sorted out the root causes of the pressure on the system. They missed a
13:1213 minutes, 12 secondsheart attack for nine days. And it’s extraordinary, Steve. I remember I was a they knew I was a cardiologist and it was our local hospital. My dad was a
13:2113 minutes, 21 secondslocal GP and he was considered a medical leader. I mean, he was loved and liked and respected massively. So, even with all of that, [snorts] um they did everything they could to help her. But,
13:3113 minutes, 31 secondsum she she went she became breathless one day. They treated her for, you know,
13:3513 minutes, 35 secondsum, uh, you know, for infection with lots of fluid, etc. And, um, they carried out a heart scan. It was decided, let’s do a heart scan on her.
13:4413 minutes, 44 secondsBut nobody actually looked at the result of the heart scan and shared it with the team because they were so busy they just missed it. And I get sent the results 9
13:5413 minutes, 54 secondsdays later being asked, “What do you think?” And I immediately noticed that it was an echo. It was a heart scan looking at the pump muscle of the heart that part of the heart muscle wasn’t working well. I said, “She’s had it.
14:0414 minutes, 4 secondsYou’ve missed a it was a a relatively minor heart attack, but enough to cause her to go into what we call heart failure.” And within 24 hours, fluid in
14:1114 minutes, 11 secondsthe lung, intensive care, went into a coma, and that was it. So that was a was a failing of the NHS, but not because of
14:2114 minutes, 21 secondsthe principles of the NHS, but because the NHS um over the years, Steve, has
14:2714 minutes, 27 secondslost its um basic ability to care for patients because the principles of the NHS have not been upheld.
14:3614 minutes, 36 secondsFor anyone that isn’t aware, the NHS means National Health Service, which is the health service and system um within
14:4214 minutes, 42 secondsthe UK. the the I mean just a few years later your father passes in July 21 from
14:5014 minutes, 50 secondsa sudden unexplained heart attack at 73 years old. Um
14:5714 minutes, 57 secondsI mean so there’s three members of your family that have ultimately um died as a result of or closely linked to heart attacks. Your immediate family.
15:0915 minutes, 9 secondsYeah. Yeah. Um yeah to some degree. Yes.
15:1315 minutes, 13 secondsAll related to the heart. All related to the heart.
15:1815 minutes, 18 secondsWas your father’s heart attack avoidable in your view? If you think about the lifestyle choices and things like that that you you talked about your mother
15:2515 minutes, 25 secondsthere, was that avoidable any in any sense of the word?
15:2815 minutes, 28 secondsYeah. Interesting. Um so there are two components to my dad’s um death. Um strictly the the postmortem findings
15:3715 minutes, 37 secondsdidn’t reveal a heart attack per se, but for all intents and purposes it can be seen that way. So, um, the first thing that happened was, um, my dad, by the
15:4515 minutes, 45 secondsway, was a very fit man for his age, 73 years old. Um, played badson every week. Um, had a bit of high blood pressure,
15:5315 minutes, 53 secondsbut had got that better controlled after quitting sugar, partly because of all my campaigning. Uh, and he listened to me and he was very into eating healthy food. In fact, you know, I consider
16:0216 minutes, 2 secondsmyself to be extremely fit. I’m obsessed with exercise. Um, you know, I played a lot of competitive sport when I was younger, partly because of him. And uh
Chapter 8: How could these deaths have been avoided
16:1116 minutes, 11 secondsit was very unexpected when he called me up. It’s coming up to his anniversary, July 26, 2021.
16:1816 minutes, 18 secondsUh and he said, “I seem I’ve got some chest discomfort.” And uh I asked him, you know, to describe it. In medicine,
16:2516 minutes, 25 seconds80% of your diagnosis, if you’re a good doctor, comes from the conversation. So the way he described his chest discomfort was a central heaviness going to his shoulders. So immediately think
16:3316 minutes, 33 secondsthis is heart. And I said, “You need to call an ambulance.” He was a bit reluctant to call an ambulance for whatever reason. And then I said, “Okay, I was in London. He was in Manchester.
16:4116 minutes, 41 secondsThat’s where I grew up. And I decided to go and have a shower, get ready, and get on the train.” And he was ringing up his
16:4816 minutes, 48 secondsuh neighbors who were both doctors. And by the time I came out of the shower, I called him back and there was no answer.
16:5416 minutes, 54 secondsAnd I remember my heart just thinking, I really hope he’s not had a cardiac arrest. It just I thought, “No, this is this can’t be can’t be what’s going on.”
17:0017 minutesKept ringing ringing. And eventually um the neighbor who was a doctor who knew me, she answered the phone and said, “Seeam, your dad’s had a cardiac
17:0817 minutes, 8 secondsarrest. We’re doing CPR in him.” I know from national data and I’ve even written about this in the BMJ. The average response time, Steve, for for for many
17:1717 minutes, 17 secondsmany years, one of the things uh that we do have done very well in the NHS, some of the best in the world, is our treatment of heart attacks and the speed
17:2417 minutes, 24 secondsof treatment and even cardiac arrests. I knew the average response time was 8 minutes. I said, “The ambulance will be here in 8 minutes.” because of the timing almost certainly he will have
17:3217 minutes, 32 secondswhat we call a shockable rhythm as in um the heart is probably in in a having a electrical disturbance and we’ll be able to shock him out of it more than 50%
17:4217 minutes, 42 secondschance he will survive this is I’m thinking already like this 10 minutes pass by hasn’t shown 20
17:4917 minutes, 49 secondsminutes nothing 30 minutes um they get there and I FaceTime them they attach a cardiac monitor it’s a flatline he’s
17:5817 minutes, 58 secondsgone nothing to be done and of course that was, you know, at that stage I was obviously devastated and I I wrote in the eye newspaper about how I I screamed louder than ever screamed in my life.
18:0918 minutes, 9 secondsBut to come back to that situation first and foremost so the first thing is if the ambulance had turned up on time almost certainly it’s likely he would have survived. That’s the first thing.
18:1818 minutes, 18 secondsBut the second thing in my mind is why has he had a cardiac arrest in the first place? He was a really healthy guy in in my family as in on his side there was no
18:2618 minutes, 26 secondsfamily history of heart disease. He had high blood pressure. Okay. But that was about it, right? And he was otherwise pretty good.
18:3318 minutes, 33 secondsAnd when the postmortm came back, there were three major arteries of the heart.
18:3818 minutes, 38 secondsTwo of them had severe blockages. And I thought, “This is odd because I knew his lifestyle. This is my area of interest
18:4618 minutes, 46 secondsand expertise, heart disease specifically, how it progresses, how you can reverse it, all that stuff, what medications can do, what they can’t do
18:5318 minutes, 53 secondsas well.” And I thought to myself, hold on, I knew his scan from a few years earlier. Something has happened in the
19:0019 minuteslast 2 or 3 years that has caused a rapid acceleration in the disease of the
19:0819 minutes, 8 secondsheart, right? In terms of the blockages getting very rapidly, you know, um, uh,
19:1219 minutes, 12 secondsprogressing. And I thought, this doesn’t this this doesn’t make sense. And I thought to myself, was he just severely stressed? Like stress can do it. Very
19:2019 minutes, 20 secondssevere stress can do it. He’d lost obviously my mom a couple of years earlier, but he was a very resilient guy. He was a vice president of the
19:2819 minutes, 28 secondsBritish Medical Association. He was still involved in medical politics during COVID. He was one of the faces on the BBC during the COVID pandemic talking about, you know, how we should
19:3619 minutes, 36 secondsmanage this, etc. So, he was still very mentally active. He wasn’t a recluse sitting in the corner, you know, he was still social. So, doesn’t really fit.
19:4419 minutes, 44 secondsAnd then a publication appeared in the journal circulation which is considered a ver the premier cardiology journal and
19:5319 minutes, 53 secondsa cardiologist called Steven Gundry who you may have heard of. He’s done a lot of work in lifestyle and lectins and stuff. So he he had and he actually had
20:0020 minutesa very senior role in the American Heart Association very eminent published cardiologist. he published um an abstract where he had looked at several
20:0820 minutes, 8 secondshundred of of his patients who had taken the COVID vaccines specifically mRNA vaccines so either Fiser or Madna two
20:1720 minutes, 17 secondsdoses and what had happened was within 8 weeks of taking those jabs
20:2420 minutes, 24 secondstheir baseline risk went from 11% chance of a heart attack in 5 years to 25%
20:3120 minutes, 31 secondschance just within 8 weeks that is a huge jump. Like just to give you perspective, Steve, if I today decided that I was gonna just consume junk food,
Chapter 9: The vaccine causing body and heart inflammation
20:4220 minutes, 42 secondsall my meals, right? I was going to smoke 20 cigarettes a day. I was going to stop exercising. I wouldn’t get anywhere close to increasing my risk
20:5020 minutes, 50 secondswithin 8 weeks. And the mechanism was through inflammation. And I thought, ah,
20:5520 minutes, 55 secondsI know heart disease is a chronic inflammatory condition. Think it’s a lifestyle. So if this is even partially true, it means that the co vaccines may
21:0321 minutes, 3 secondsbe causing inflammation around the heart and that means that many people are going to have an acceleration in heart disease and that may explain what
21:1121 minutes, 11 secondshappened to my dad. But that was only one bit of data. Of course, a good scientist knows, okay, it gets you thinking. It’s a hypothesis potentially.
21:1821 minutes, 18 secondsObviously, there’s some data, but it’s not enough to be make it more than likely at this stage. And within two
21:2521 minutes, 25 secondsweeks, call it providence or whatever else, um I got a phone call from uh somebody who I know, I consider him uh
21:3321 minutes, 33 secondsyou know, one of the smartest cardiologists, very high integrity from very prestigious institution. And he called me up and he said, “Asim,
21:4221 minutes, 42 secondsI’ve got something to tell you. I’m very upset.” He said, “A group of researchers that I’m linked to in this institution
21:4921 minutes, 49 secondsum had accidentally found, and this is nothing to do with blood tests or cardiac risk, through an a very high-tech imaging of the heart modality
21:5721 minutes, 57 secondsthey were using, that there was inflammation of the arteries, which would cause obviously potentially heart attacks. That was there in the
22:0522 minutes, 5 secondsvaccinated, but not there in the unvaccinated. The lead researcher sat the team down and he said, “Guys, I just
22:1422 minutes, 14 secondswant to make this clear. We are not going to explore these findings any further because it may affect our funding from the drug industry.”
22:2222 minutes, 22 seconds[snorts] Now, obviously, people hearing this are going to think, “Wow, that is sounds corrupt. Um, this is something that has been a big problem within medicine for a very, very long time,
22:3122 minutes, 31 secondswhich isn’t getting an airing.” But it didn’t surprise me of that. But it was still quite shocking. But for me at that stage, Steve, it was okay, at the very
22:3922 minutes, 39 secondsleast, I should ask the question. And I was nervous about it. I had been someone took the jab myself. I went to Good
22:4722 minutes, 47 secondsMorning Britain and very early on when they were just offering it to high-risisk people to say that um I think that this is probably safe and
22:5522 minutes, 55 secondspeople shouldn’t be worried. And this was again specifically to address people from black and ethnic minority communities because there was a lower uptake amongst those communities. Partly
23:0323 minutes, 3 secondsalso because they often amongst some of the most marginal is marginalized members of society and they have less trust in authority in government. So you
23:1123 minutes, 11 secondscan see how the psychology plays in there and I convinced a friend of mine who’s a film director Ginda Chada who directed um Bendit like Beckham. You
23:1923 minutes, 19 secondsmight know some of her movies and we went on together in Good Morning Britain to say listen I think this and you know this is fine. So I had all of that and so I was in many ways I was
23:2623 minutes, 26 secondsindoctrinated and and there is you know and people don’t like to admit they’re wrong or think they’ve got it wrong. So for me to start turning or changing my
23:3523 minutes, 35 secondsmind or asking the question um is not necessarily an easy thing to do but I’ve done that throughout my career. So you know if anyone has the um character you
23:4523 minutes, 45 secondsI know myself to be able to say listen okay there’s new evidence here or whatever else I felt I could do that but I was still nervous and I thought you know this is not something that I think
23:5323 minutes, 53 secondsthe BBC are going to pick up on. I had a good rapport um with GB News at that point um and I still do and one of the
24:0224 minutes, 2 secondspresenters Alexander Phillips was a friend of mine and I called her up and said listen um you know we were doing she wanted me on anyway I was doing
24:0924 minutes, 9 secondsregular health slots every few weeks I said what I see what do you want to talk about next week and I said I think let’s talk about this said okay go on GB news
24:1824 minutes, 18 secondsI say you know the vaccine committee of the country should look into this this is what I know this is what I found whistleblower all this stuff I my dad
24:2524 minutes, 25 secondsdied as well and this may be the reason for his death. And I just asked that question and of course I didn’t expect it to go viral. You know, it got
24:3424 minutes, 34 secondsmillions of views and it was getting reach all over America and that kind of thing. Strangely, by this point, Steve,
24:4124 minutes, 41 secondsI don’t know if you remember, but Omicron wave had started and um we were getting reports from South Africa, which was really reassuring that from the
24:4924 minutes, 49 secondsdoctor that discovered it that this doesn’t seem to be more harmful than the flu. Now, great. Okay, it’s mutated.
24:5524 minutes, 55 secondsIt’s a different strain. This is really great news. And then Saja Javad around the same time the secretary for health had come out in parliament and said we
25:0325 minutes, 3 secondsare now going to pass through legislation that the COVID vaccine needs to be mandated for healthcare workers
25:1125 minutes, 11 secondsdespite the fact that the British Medical Association Medical Colleges we’ve never in our country one thing that’s really good especially within the medical establishment we don’t believe
25:1825 minutes, 18 secondsin mandating any drug. They do this in America. They’ve never done this here.
25:2225 minutes, 22 secondsAnd although they weren’t very vocal about it, they kind of were a bit relatively quiet. They weren’t supporting it openly saying that we should mandate. This was coming from this political decision. I thought this
25:3025 minutes, 30 secondsis very odd. At a stage now where we’re thinking there’s serious harm, we know it’s not. And by that stage, 2021,
25:3625 minutes, 36 secondsNovember, most people were understanding now it wasn’t stopping infection, right,
25:4025 minutes, 40 secondsfor most people, right? So I said, this doesn’t make any sense. So I then started campaigning on this issue. And I started campaigning on this issue. was
25:4825 minutes, 48 secondsable to get into the mainstream news on this particular issue because around that time um the I newspaper had
25:5525 minutes, 55 secondspublished an investigation into the delay that led to my dad’s death of the ambulance service right and I had also
26:0326 minutes, 3 secondsgot privy to knowledge in that you know in that story that the deputy chief nurse of NHS singing had called me up and said there had been basically a
26:1126 minutes, 11 secondscover up by the government and the department of health to stop people knowing for months there were ambulance delays doctors and members of public I thought this is unacceptable. So I
26:1826 minutes, 18 secondsexposed this. It became a massive story BBC news and when the BBC presenter saying Dr. Mahhatra what’s going on wrong with the NHS why is it failing why
26:2626 minutes, 26 secondsis this happening? I said it’s multiffactorial but I said one of the most important reasons is you failed we failed for years to address the root cause of what’s driving stress on the
26:3526 minutes, 35 secondssystem taking on the excesses of big food and big farmer. But I said, “Right now, we’ve got um 80 to, you know,
26:4426 minutes, 44 seconds100,000 NHS staff who are refusing to have the COVID vaccine. This would be a crisis. They’re going to lose their jobs. This is this mandate needs to be
26:5226 minutes, 52 secondsoverturned. It’s not scientific. It’s not ethical.” So, I got I got that into the mainstream and ultimately we end up overturning, right? The the the um the mandate. Um but there was a backlash,
27:0327 minutes, 3 secondsSteve, behind the scenes. And I’ve not been public about this before, so I’m going to tell you this for the first time because I think it’s time I I tell this story. Shortly after me going on GB News as a doctor who’d had the vaccine,
27:1527 minutes, 15 secondshad been on Good Morning Britain to say it was likely safe and effective to then talking about we should maybe look into this and maybe pause the situation
27:2227 minutes, 22 secondsbecause of um these heart issues that need to be investigated. I received an email from the Royal College of
27:3027 minutes, 30 secondsPhysicians, this is the oldest medical institution in the world, saying, “Dr.
27:3427 minutes, 34 secondsDr. Mahhatra um we have received a number of anonymous complaints from other fellows
27:4127 minutes, 41 secondsthat you uh in reference to my GB news interview that you are spreading antiax misinformation
27:4927 minutes, 49 secondsand you’ve got four weeks to respond to this and they were saying all the different sanctions that could happen because of me doing this right Steve at
27:5727 minutes, 57 secondsthat point I thought if we are going to get a pause on this vaccine and really investigate it it’s because of such an IND indoctrination because so many
28:0528 minutes, 5 secondspeople, billions of people around the world have taken this and therefore the the the battle to expose it is going to be harder than anything I’ve ever done.
28:1428 minutes, 14 secondsThe only way in my only chance is to get it published in a peer-reviewed journal and then to get it into the news. I spent 9 months at that stage literally
28:2328 minutes, 23 secondseating, breathing, sleeping, speaking to two FISA whistleblowers, speaking to eminent scientists in expertise I didn’t have around immunology and vaccine
Chapter 10: Being accused of spreading misinformation
28:3128 minutes, 31 secondsdevelopment. Of course, I had the understanding of cardiology, you know,
28:3528 minutes, 35 secondsbetter than anybody in in this particular field, in this particular area. And when I did that research and
28:4228 minutes, 42 secondslooked at it, I first of all concluded that there absolutely needs to be a suspension of the vaccine because um
28:5028 minutes, 50 secondswhat happened by the summer of 2022 and this is actually the the most crucial and important piece of data on its own which should have been enough to suspend
28:5828 minutes, 58 secondsit and actually suggest that it probably shouldn’t have been rolled out in the first place is that those trials that
29:0529 minutes, 5 secondswere done by Fiser and Madna which led to the all the media reports 95 100%
29:1129 minutes, 11 secondseffective um you know the approval by the regulator the roll out the coercion the mandates they were reanalyzed by
29:1929 minutes, 19 secondssome very eminent scientists including the associate editor the BMJ the one of the world’s top epidemiologists and they published in the journal vaccine which
29:2829 minutes, 28 secondsis the premier journal for vaccines and they were able to get new data that was made available on health Canada’s website and the FDA in America’s website
29:3729 minutes, 37 secondsand what they did in their reanalysis of the original highquality clinical trials is they found Steve you were more likely
29:4529 minutes, 45 secondsto suffer serious harm from taking the vaccine at a rate of 1 in 800 that meant hospitalization disability or a
29:5229 minutes, 52 secondslife-changing event than you were to be hospitalized with COVID and this is during the early phase right this is during the most most lethal strain
30:0030 minutesfor all age groups yes well absolutely well they put all age groups together so on average in all age groups that’s a very good question
30:0830 minutes, 8 secondsum but what’s missing is that actually okay is there a benefit that’s greater than harm in certain age groups but we can indirectly answer that in a second
Chapter 11: The harm of the vaccine
30:1730 minutes, 17 secondsso that was the original trial so on average it was more harmful than beneficial okay but even before talking about all age groups Steve a 1 in 800
30:2630 minutes, 26 secondsharm rate for a vaccine is completely unacceptable in the sense that we have pulled other vaccines in the past for
30:3430 minutes, 34 secondsmuch less harm the swine flu vaccine was suspended globally because it was found to cause Gillian Barry syndrome a
30:4130 minutes, 41 secondsdebilitating neurological condition in one in a 100,000 people. Rotovirus vaccine was pulled in 1999 because it was found to cause a form of bowel obstruction in children at 1 in 10,000.
30:5230 minutes, 52 secondsSo you’ve already got a harm rate of 1800 irrespective of right. So that first and foremost should be a red flag to say hold on this is this is too much.
31:0031 minutesWhen they say harm rate how do they what’s the the range of definitions of harm? Well, in this one they categorize serious harm as it caused you to be hospitalized.
31:0931 minutes, 9 secondsYeah. It caused a disability. Okay. Or something that was life-changing.
31:1331 minutes, 13 secondsNow, of course, that can incorporate lots of different things, but of those,
31:1731 minutes, 17 secondsand I spoke to the lead researcher I know work with him on other things, um 40% of those serious harms were actually related to clotting disorders like lung clots, heart attacks, etc.
31:2731 minutes, 27 secondsI want to make sure I’m super clear here because I don’t understand um the the data you’re citing. So you’re saying that they found that one in 800 people would have serious harm or harm.
31:3731 minutes, 37 secondsUh serious harm. Serious harm. Serious.
31:3931 minutes, 39 secondsOne in 800 people had in the trials. One in 800. Yeah. One in 800. Serious harm. Right now just to give you perspective so you can balance it out just because this is important.
31:4831 minutes, 48 secondsIt’s a question you’ve asked is really important. um we didn’t have any good real world data at that point on
31:5731 minutes, 57 secondscan we separate vaccinated from unvaccinated to look at what the hospitalization rate would be for COVID for example in people who took the
32:0632 minutes, 6 secondsvaccine versus the people that didn’t according to age group that data in the whole world the only country to get make that data available was the UK and they
32:1432 minutes, 14 secondsdid that in the beginning of uh 2023 so January last year and What did that show? After two doses of the FISA
32:2332 minutes, 23 secondsvaccine, Steve, if you were over 70, so this is the highest risk group, you had to vaccinate 2,500 people to prevent one person being hospitalized with COVID.
32:3732 minutes, 37 secondsAnd this was with the different strain,
32:3832 minutes, 38 secondsthe omnicom strain, because the original strain was Yeah, it was they didn’t Yeah, it was.
32:4332 minutes, 43 secondsYou’re right. It was with the Omicron strain. So that was still, but it gave us a ballpark figure that even that. So it’s like it’s like so say a patient comes to me and says doc what are the
32:5132 minutes, 51 secondsbenefits of this drug as a prevention whatever else and I say to them well if you take this there’s a one in 2,500 chance it will help you prevent you
32:5832 minutes, 58 secondsbeing hospitalized I’ll be honest with you Steve I mean in medicine in all the drugs I’ve used and all the data I know about different medications and heart
33:0733 minutes, 7 secondsdisease etc that figure I mean it’s a very serious issue but that figure is a joke I mean there’s nothing of that of such poor and then when you get under
33:1533 minutes, 15 secondsthe a when you get to people under the age of say uh 50 you’re talking about having to vaccinate maybe several hundred thousand to prevent one one
33:2333 minutes, 23 secondsis that relevant for that the first strain of co as well because or do we not have the data on that because we don’t have that data on that we do in my paper which I published actually we
33:3133 minutes, 31 secondsdid have some data on delta and if I remember correctly the data on the over 70s the there’s also problems with this a little bit because it’s not corrected
33:3933 minutes, 39 secondsfor other factors such as social economics etc risk factors of you that [snorts] might make people more vulnerable So, if I remember correctly
33:4733 minutes, 47 secondsfrom that paper, if you’re over 70, that was about 1 in 250. Delta was the worst strain, actually. So, about 1 in 250. Okay. On the British Heart Foundation website,
33:5533 minutes, 55 secondsI’m sure you’ve read this. Um, just to read out what they say on there,
34:0034 minutesit says that up to one in 10,000 people with the FISA vaccine might experience are at risk of mo myocarditis or pericarditis.
34:1134 minutes, 11 secondsHave I pronounced that correctly? Yeah.
34:1234 minutes, 12 secondsUp to one in 10,000 people for the Madna vaccine. And uh it’s not possible to estimate other vaccines because they’re not frequently used in the UK. All three
34:2134 minutes, 21 secondsof these COVID 19 vaccines are mRNA vaccines designed to target the omnicon omnicom strain. And at the top of this
34:2834 minutes, 28 secondsit says the risk of myocarditis or pericarditis after covid-19 vaccine is very low. How do you respond to that? Do you think you agree with that?
34:3634 minutes, 36 secondsNo, I don’t agree with it at all. I think there are a number of layers to respond to this. I think the first thing to say Steve is the British Art Foundation with the greatest respect to
Chapter 12: Responding to the British Heart Foundation comments
34:4434 minutes, 44 secondsthem and they do a lot of good work overall is still part of the so-called establishment which has been blinded for
34:5134 minutes, 51 secondsyears to actually even address so many issues on health when it doesn’t uh suit the interests of big farmer and and and
35:0035 minutesI can say that categorically because I know one of the the the chief advisor uh uh to heart disease um for the British
35:0835 minutes, 8 secondsHeart Foundation with the greatest respect to him is a guy called professor Rory Collins um University of Oxford and they have said similar things when it
35:1735 minutes, 17 secondscomes to statin drugs which we’ll talk about later um but that person the people who advise them are people who are heavily funded and linked to pharma
35:2535 minutes, 25 secondstaking their institutions taking hundreds of millions for example so there’s a huge bias there to start with that’s the first thing but it for me
35:3335 minutes, 33 secondswhat the British Heart Foundation are not doing is actually countering and I would love them to counter that cuz I’m very open for the debate here is that
35:4135 minutes, 41 secondsyou’ve got a reanalysis of and they know this the best way of determining serious harm from any drug is actually looking
35:4935 minutes, 49 secondsone of the best ways is the highest quality level of evidence which is the randomized control trials which is what led to the approval when you’ve got an independent reanalysis in a
35:5735 minutes, 57 secondspeer-reviewed journal saying more harm than good from the beginning that in itself and and then we look at real world data Steve there’s so many other
36:0436 minutes, 4 secondsbits of data that they are ignoring basically to answer your question they’re ignoring ing lots of other data which is very clear whether it’s autopsy
36:1236 minutes, 12 secondsdata whether it’s other studies that came out of Israel that showed for example this was published in a journal called nature scientific reports and again they ignore this they don’t talk
36:2036 minutes, 20 secondsabout it so it’s it’s like hold on guys this is you’re ignoring you’re not even mentioning this data they showed and this is really most disturbing in 2021
36:3036 minutes, 30 secondsthere was a 25% increase in heart attacks and or cardiac arrests in people
36:3636 minutes, 36 secondsaged between 16 and 39 which was associated with the COVID vaccine but not associated with COVID.
36:4536 minutes, 45 secondsHow do they how do they tease out I was thinking about um you know the increase in heart related conditions around the pandemic and following the pandemic and
36:5436 minutes, 54 secondsin in much of your work and I think in this book I can’t actually pronounce the word pop diet. Pop diet,
36:5836 minutes, 58 secondsthe Popey diet. You talk about how these other sort of lifestyle factors like community, friendships, relationships, stress, mental health, being sedentary,
37:0637 minutes, 6 secondssedentary, all of these things can contribute to heart problems. So when I think about the pandemic, I go, people weren’t seeing their friends. We were stressed more than ever. People were losing their jobs. They were furoughed.
37:1637 minutes, 16 secondsUm they had mental health, you know, we saw the mental health uh stats explode. Yeah.
37:2137 minutes, 21 secondsUm all the factors there that are linked to heart disease. So, how do we know that it it wasn’t th those factors of the
37:2937 minutes, 29 secondspandemic that caused an increase in heart related issues and how do how can we tease that out from the the vaccine?
Chapter 13: Our lifestyle choices contribute to our heart problems
37:3537 minutes, 35 secondsReally good question. Um because remember I also said that early on before I realized the vaccine might be playing a role. I actually thought that was that was the most likely explanation
37:4437 minutes, 44 secondsof the increased heart attacks, lockdown stress, poor diet, etc.
37:4737 minutes, 47 secondsYou’d expect to see an increase in you would you would and I think it has played a role, Steve, for sure it has played a role. But then when you look at the quality of data to say how much of a
37:5537 minutes, 55 secondsrole that’s played that it it’s on a different level when you look at the vaccine when you look at the plausible
38:0438 minutes, 4 secondsmechanism you look at the types of people that are dying young people and stuff like that it doesn’t fit. Um I’ll be honest my personal view it is a primary driver without any shadow of a
38:1338 minutes, 13 secondsdoubt in my mind and a personal view of the excess deaths. As a scientist, I’ll say it’s a likely significant contributing factor, but probably the
38:2038 minutes, 20 secondsmost likely because another aspect to all of this is what we call pharmarmaccovigilance reports. So these
38:2738 minutes, 27 secondsare reports that are done by members of the public when they they have an adverse reaction to any drug and it’s not easy to fill in. You fill in these
38:3538 minutes, 35 secondswhat we call yellow card scheme. You can get it online and you send it off to your doctor or to you know the regulator. those reports and I’ve
38:4338 minutes, 43 secondsthroughout my career I’ve never seen the extent like for example I’ll give you an example um after 9.7 million doses of the Astrogenica vaccine which was
38:5238 minutes, 52 secondsultimately pulled right astrogenica of course was also one of the co vaccines there were 800,000 in this country 800,000 yellow card reports now some of
39:0039 minutesthem um are not going to be serious serious but people don’t fill in a yellow card report if you’ve had a bit of a fever after having a vaccine
39:0839 minutes, 8 secondsthey’ve felt quite ill ill enough to that’s already and then within at it’s estimated maybe one in five of those from other data would suggest serious
39:1639 minutes, 16 secondsharm. So other data from reporting and with the so with about I think 30 million doses if it was probably about 30 million doses of FISA we had about
39:2539 minutes, 25 seconds500,000 yellow card reports in this country right which is still a lot you know that’s one in 60 yellow card reports now they’re all not going to be super serious hospitalization death
39:3339 minutes, 33 secondswhatever else um but when you put all of the data together Steve that it paints a picture that makes it look as clear as a
39:4239 minutes, 42 secondsday that anybody doubting you know it should the the evidence should be this is the primary cause of the excess deaths until proven otherwise. That’s
39:5139 minutes, 51 secondsthe level of evidence, Steve, but it’s just being ignored. It’s being ignored and I can talk about why it’s being ignored.
39:5739 minutes, 57 secondsOne of the things I’ve been sort of gaps in my head that I’ve been keen to fill is do you believe that if we hadn’t have
40:0640 minutes, 6 secondsintroduced the vaccine, more or less people would have survived CO? Because I’ve got close friends of mine that got COVID and I watched them go from very
40:1440 minutes, 14 secondshealthy looking people to basically skeletons. Good friend actually good friend one of the CEOs of my company his dad went from being a very healthy man to being basically looking like a
40:2240 minutes, 22 secondsskeleton and almost died. And then I’ve got I know of other people that did die.
40:2640 minutes, 26 secondsSo I think in the grand scheme of things when we think about um vaccines was it a net positive that we had a vaccine?
40:3440 minutes, 34 secondsThere is from everything I know now I’ve slowly and reluctantly come to the conclusion that the COVID vaccine
40:4340 minutes, 43 secondsintroduction has had a catastrophic overall net negative effect on the
Chapter 14: Did the vaccine have a net negative result?
40:5140 minutes, 51 secondspopulation and society. And one of the re and and let me just caveat this because you’ve mentioned the fact that people suffered from COVID and I’m not denying that. I’ve got patients, Steve,
41:0241 minutes, 2 secondsthat I see that have had long CO that weren’t vaccinated, okay? And have suffered quite badly.
41:0841 minutes, 8 secondsMost of the most serious aspects of COVID happened early on in 2020 and predominantly affected the elderly.
41:1641 minutes, 16 secondsWe’ve got all of that data now that’s been reanalyzed by one of the world’s top scientists. And even looking back now, essentially if you were under 70,
41:2541 minutes, 25 secondseven from the beginning, your risk of serious harm from COVID is in the ballpark figure of the flu, right? And
41:3341 minutes, 33 secondseven I actually was wrong. I wrote an article in European scientist in Mar in April 2020 because I actually initially
41:4241 minutes, 42 secondsstarted making a lot of noise about why we not talking about lifestyle with COVID to help people mitigate, you know, the immune improve their immune system.
41:4941 minutes, 49 secondsAnd I said, you know, talking to um a friend of mine who works in the busiest DR in America in in New York who I’ve done work with and he said, it seemed
41:5841 minutes, 58 secondsthis is I’ve never seen anything like this is devastating. Some of my colleagues are dying. So I have no doubt that at the very beginning in the early strain of the virus, it was really bad
42:0642 minutes, 6 secondsespecially for vulnerable people, people with obesity, etc.
42:0942 minutes, 9 secondsCuz you know I I I remember getting CO I was actually used to live on the top floor of this building and I remember I’ve never experienced anything quite as bizarre as the symptom set that I had
42:1842 minutes, 18 secondswhen I got CO. The fact that at 3:00 a.m. in the morning, I don’t take medicine. So, fact [snorts] at 3:00 a.m.
42:2242 minutes, 22 secondsin the morning, I’m lying flat on my floor ordering ibuprofen on Uber Eats because my back I just had the most
42:2942 minutes, 29 secondsbizarre like back pain. And so, I was having to like lie flat on the floor cuz I couldn’t even lie in bed. It was so bad.
42:3642 minutes, 36 secondsJust this weird set of symptoms that I’d never had before. My my partner, she lost her smell and taste. And it was so unusual. It was so unusual. Um
42:4442 minutes, 44 secondsthere’s not been a time in my lifetime that people have lost their smell and taste on mass. So when I when it when you hear it compared to the flu, you go,
42:5142 minutes, 51 seconds”This was not the flu. This is something different.”
42:5342 minutes, 53 secondsYes. No, the symptoms are very different. And I think now it’s accepted um that um and we won’t go into a lot of detail, but I think one of the reasons
43:0143 minutes, 1 secondas well, it was human engineered. You know, almost certainly the evidence points to it being a lab leak, right? So it had a very You’re right. It was very different to any other virus that used to be a conspiracy theory.
43:1143 minutes, 11 secondsI know, right? Now it’s not a conspiracy theory.
43:1343 minutes, 13 seconds[laughter]
43:1343 minutes, 13 secondsI know. I know. Exactly.
43:1443 minutes, 14 secondsIt’s funny. Yeah. when you heard about that that that lab in Wuhan that were messing around with viruses [laughter]
43:1843 minutes, 18 secondsand then we we decided to put the blame on like a market store but I think now the general consensus is that it probably came from that lab in Wuhan.
43:2543 minutes, 25 secondsYeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. And I’ve spoken to in fact I I spent time with actually the scientists that first went public with it who identified it um
43:3243 minutes, 32 secondsguy in America sorry in Australia. Um so yeah that came from lab but so I think it had these different strange things loss of smell etc. But in terms of
43:4043 minutes, 40 secondsserious illness, um it was there at the beginning. Now when you when you look back, I think essentially there were vulnerable elderly but uh you know who
Chapter 15: COVID was a lab leak
43:4943 minutes, 49 secondswho suffered um especially people in nursing homes with a lot of deaths there. But there’s so many other components to this. So one is did we
43:5743 minutes, 57 secondsinstitute the correct treatments? A lot of people were killed because they weren’t managed properly in ITU, you know, in terms of putting people incubating them, putting on respirators
44:0644 minutes, 6 secondswhen they didn’t need it. And that in itself has a risk. um some of the wrong treatments were given. There were other treatments now that we look back that probably would have been helpful things
44:1444 minutes, 14 secondslike ivormectin which I know has been a bit controversial but um was very it’s a very safer than paracetamol right so first do no harm okay um but it may have
44:2244 minutes, 22 secondsdone some good and a lot of people and doctors around the world that used it in several thousand there’s a doctor in South Africa that used it in 14,000 patients including many elderly not a
44:3044 minutes, 30 secondssingle one died from co and this is early on so all these things that we missed we miss a lifestyle intervention so all those things are there but by the time you get to the end of 2020 the
44:3944 minutes, 39 secondsbeginning of 2021 on there are so many things that happened Steve that you have to think about before you introduce a vaccine. One is what is the state of the virus right now um and it had already
44:4844 minutes, 48 secondsmutated to some degree and become less lethal. There is natural immunity which we know is very powerful right um and
44:5644 minutes, 56 secondsbut the issue with the vaccine is and certainly it was probably there from the beginning. We know that when one looks
45:0345 minutes, 3 secondsat the original trials there was a and this is what the drug companies have doing for a long long period of time.
45:0945 minutes, 9 secondsThey will mislead people using statistics about the benefits. So use something called relative risk reduction. Let me just explain this
45:1745 minutes, 17 secondsbecause you can apply this to statins as well. Is they presented the benefit as a 95% protection against infection.
45:2445 minutes, 24 secondsRemember that figure 95% right? And it was what we call relative risk reduction. So if you’ve got for example two groups in
45:3345 minutes, 33 secondsa trial, say 100 in one trial in in in in one group and 100 in another and let’s just say let’s give you an example of statins and you’re you’re following
45:4245 minutes, 42 secondsthem up over 5 years to look at a drug to see if it benefits them in preventing having a heart attack.
45:4845 minutes, 48 secondsIn one group they get the dummy pill um and you follow them up over five years. And in the people that got the dummy pill, in fact you didn’t do anything different, two of them suffered a heart attack.
Chapter 16: The drug companies misleading us
45:5845 minutes, 58 secondsIn the other group, the other hundred people that were followed up over five years who got the pill, the the drug, right, only one suffered a heart attack.
46:0746 minutes, 7 secondsSo you’ve reduced the heart attack risk by 50%. Right? Two to one, right? 50%.
46:1346 minutes, 13 secondsBut you’ve only prevented one heart attack. You’ve treated 100 people, but you’ve prevented one heart attack out of treating 100. Yeah. Does that make sense? So that’s a 1% absolute benefit.
46:2246 minutes, 22 secondsIn other words, when you explain that to a patient, when I ask when I have engage in sort of what we call informed consent, shared decision-making, when
46:3046 minutes, 30 secondsthey ask me about drug, I’ll say, “This gives you a 1% chance if you take this drug religiously of preventing a heart attack.” Now, you you apply that to the
46:3746 minutes, 37 secondsoriginal COVID vaccine trials, which by the way have so many other problems with them because even those trials were conducted and analyzed and designed by
46:4646 minutes, 46 secondsthe drug industry. I mean this is one of the biggest myths that needs to be busted Steve out there for most doctors um as well as members of the public medical knowledge is under commercial control but most people don’t know that.
46:5746 minutes, 57 secondsSo what happens is they did the trial but let’s just talk about what the results their their results showed us a 95% relative risk reduction against
47:0547 minutes, 5 secondsinfection. They didn’t show any reduction in uh co death by the way in that trial right they just said prevent from infection but we then presume it
47:1347 minutes, 13 secondsmay then prevent right uh reduce death rates absolute risk reduction from infection at the beginning was one was 0.84%.
47:2447 minutes, 24 secondsOne in 119 so that’s how many people you need to vaccinate to prevent one infection which actually people were not told that. So imagine you’re thinking, should I take
47:3347 minutes, 33 secondsthis vaccine? Say, well Steve, there’s a one less than 1% chance that it’s going to prevent you getting infected. People weren’t told that.
47:3947 minutes, 39 secondsBut but that it then reduce my chance of getting seriously ill. Right. No, but we’ve then talked about that,
47:4447 minutes, 44 secondshaven’t we? Like as in when you look at the data certainly beginning of 2023 that was looking over the previous year,
47:4947 minutes, 49 seconds2022, you have to vaccinate 2,500 people to prevent one person getting seriously ill with COVID, right? If you’re over 70 with the second with the other strain,
47:5847 minutes, 58 secondsbut with the other strain and it may have been better, Steve, you’re right. It may it probably was better but it still numbers are still much smaller than what people were led to believe. And and by
48:0548 minutes, 5 secondsthe way Steve the narrative at the beginning they kept changing the goalpost. Remember it wasn’t about preventing serious illness and death. It was all about preventing infection. You
48:1348 minutes, 13 secondsare not in America you’ve seen it all over CNN Rachel Madau and she’s saying it so passionately. If you take this
48:2148 minutes, 21 secondsvaccine you are not going to get COVID and calling anyone who who questions it being a science deny. I mean Jesus Christ. So my last question on that
48:3048 minutes, 30 secondsbefore I I say I was going to say is um do you think there would have been less deaths overall if we hadn’t have had a vaccine?
48:4048 minutes, 40 secondsYes.
48:4148 minutes, 41 secondsYou think there would have been less deaths by now when you look at it. So I think over time so so where we are now start um
48:4948 minutes, 49 secondsso if we hadn’t have introduced the vaccine for that first strain of co you think there’d be less deaths.
48:5448 minutes, 54 secondsOkay. If I was to I still think that if okay this is very nuanced but important.
49:0449 minutes, 4 secondsIf the vaccine had only been offered to the high-risisk people at the beginning,
49:1249 minutes, 12 secondssay the over 70s or people with multiple risk factors, [snorts] I think there is a case to be made,
Chapter 17: Do you think there would have been less death without the vaccine?
49:1849 minutes, 18 secondsright? I’m going to counter that in a minute though. But there is a case to be made that there was overall benefit versus harm. But there’s a problem. One,
49:2649 minutes, 26 secondsthere wasn’t true informed consent,
49:2949 minutes, 29 secondsright? Because those figures, those numbers weren’t given to pay people about the prevention of infection, etc.,
49:3349 minutes, 33 secondsRight. Um and two, if you have an average serious harm rate of 1 in 800,
49:3949 minutes, 39 secondsany scientist, even regulators would have said, “Hold on a minute. This is way too high. This is too risky.” And this is, by the way, Steve, only the
49:4749 minutes, 47 secondsshort-term. Because remember, this vaccine didn’t go through what other vaccines have gone through, which is 5 to 10 years of safety testing.
49:5449 minutes, 54 seconds[snorts]
49:5449 minutes, 54 secondsSo if you throw all those caveats in and use informed consent, I can guarantee you with all of my knowledge, expertise,
50:0350 minutes, 3 secondsexperience with patients when you engage in these conversations, most of those elderly people will probably still refused it. But but but yes, I think
50:1250 minutes, 12 secondsthere is a case to be made that the the benefits may have outweighed the harms in those high-risisk people at the very beginning in the short term. Absolutely.
50:2050 minutes, 20 secondsYou know, when I think about Rachel Maddau and what she said on TV about,
50:2450 minutes, 24 secondsyou know, that it’s going to stop the spread of infection, etc., I can have a degree of empathy
50:3150 minutes, 31 secondsbecause if that’s the information you’re being fed and you are a public-f facing broadcaster and it’s being fed to you by scientists
50:4050 minutes, 40 secondsand it’s been fed to you by the NHS and whoever else and you know, very credible people that you’ve been raised to believe and to trust. If you’re a public
50:4850 minutes, 48 secondsfacing broadcaster, what else are you going to say? You’re not going to say the opposite. You’re not you can’t sit on the fence. Your job is to broadcast.
50:5450 minutes, 54 secondsIt’s the news, right? So I I have and I think you did the same. You said earlier you went on Good Morning Britain or something and and I’m not blaming Rachel Mad here. I’m just saying that the indoctrination that
51:0351 minutes, 3 secondscame through the mainstream media was so strong through people like Rachel Maddo.
51:0651 minutes, 6 secondsAnd why is that important, Steve? I had a conversation with the chairman of the British Medical Association in December 2021 when I was campaigning to overturn vaccine mandates for healthcare workers.
Chapter 18: The government said the vaccine will protect us from COVID…
51:1751 minutes, 17 secondsHe had access to Saji Javid. I had a previous uh rapport with Matt Hanok but he had obviously left by then. Um and I
51:2451 minutes, 24 secondsspoke to his name Shan Nagpaul and I explained him everything I knew about the vaccine after looking at data at that point. I hadn’t published at this point but I went through it in in in in
51:3251 minutes, 32 secondsa logical way. chairman of the BMA, by the way, not just some random person. And he said, “Asim,
51:3951 minutes, 39 secondsno one appears to have critically appraised the evidence on the vaccine as well as you have from our two-hour chat.
51:4451 minutes, 44 secondsMost of my colleagues who are in senior policy, you know,
51:4951 minutes, 49 secondsmedical positions, establishment positions are getting their information on the benefits and harms of the vaccine from the BBC.” It’s it’s super difficult.
51:5751 minutes, 57 secondsIsn’t that extraordinary, though? I think it’s really difficult because if I if you’re dealing with lots of people dying on mass and it’s happened very
52:0552 minutes, 5 secondsvery quickly and people are just dropping dead and you’re seeing you know hospitals being overrun,
52:1252 minutes, 12 secondsyou’ve got to you got to tread carefully with the information you’re putting out there.
52:1752 minutes, 17 secondsSo, if the scientific information comes in early and maybe a little bit too too soon before it’s really been vetted and triple checked, saying one thing
52:2652 minutes, 26 secondsand you’re desperate for answers, I can I can see why a group of people would say, “Okay, this is the best information.” And then to go against that information could potentially cause
52:3452 minutes, 34 secondstons of harm. So, I can also imagine why a group of people would be really slow to then change their mind away from that because you’re dealing with like
52:4252 minutes, 42 secondsSteve, I was that person, too. So, I’m with you on that 100%. I think where I’m taking this is the system if it had been
52:4852 minutes, 48 secondsmore transparent early on and this is where I’ve been, you know, banging my,
52:5452 minutes, 54 secondsyou know, head against a brick wall to some degree for about a decade. If there was more transparency in the system, we would have had better information even from the beginning. But that information
53:0253 minutes, 2 secondswas kept commercially confidential because of the system that really is geared towards uh supporting the
53:1053 minutes, 10 secondsinterests of big farmer not in the interest of people’s health and that and and if that and that’s the key point here right this is we’re looking back over time think how did this happen how
53:1953 minutes, 19 secondsdo we allow this to happen we need to go deeper say how do we stop this happening again in the future so we have better information that’s all I’m saying do you think it is malicious at like a
53:2753 minutes, 27 secondsgovernment level do you think no you don’t think it is not at all I um know many politicians uh very senior people um cross party uh
53:3653 minutes, 36 secondssome of them I call my friends uh many of them come to me for medical advice right um in fact one of them uh you know he lost 100 pounds on my POPY diet with
53:4453 minutes, 44 secondsTom Watson the deputy leader of the Labour party right so um and and and these genuinely by and large are decent people that want to do
53:5153 minutes, 51 secondsthe right thing but they are also fed you know misinformation by lobbyists they take as expert opinion or
53:5853 minutes, 58 secondsinformation stuff that has been created for the purposes of the interest of big food or big farmer. you know, when I um campaigned on you getting the sugar tax
54:0754 minutes, 7 secondsintroduced, you know, I wrote articles in the BMJ and I started ranging every newspaper and I remember I thought we’re going to win this because the front page of the Daily Mail was sugar is a new
Chapter 19: Is it a malicious action from the government?
54:1654 minutes, 16 secondstobacco and that put pressure on the then secretary Jeremy Hunt because the male then decided they were going to go right and of course you know that
54:2454 minutes, 24 secondsgovernment conservative government are particularly you know influenced by what the Daily Mail writes because they traditionally one of their supporters
54:3154 minutes, 31 secondsbut there was a story around that time where they exposed and it was on the front page that government ministers in terms of obesity strategy, how do we
54:4054 minutes, 40 secondssolve the obesity epidemic had had 99 meetings with representatives of the food industry and not a single meeting with a public health doctor for example.
54:5154 minutes, 51 secondsSo I know how that hap that obviously that the system should be more transparent to make sure that they understand that those those politicians but many of them um were shocked you
55:0055 minutesknow when I when I told them this information they trust me um one of them you know was a very a former government minister who who said it seem you know
55:0855 minutes, 8 secondsthis is she’s shocked by it but like now understands it they they were captured as well but we were all we were in a state of fear Steve as well we let’s not underestimate that at the very beginning we were all scared we didn’t know what
55:1755 minutes, 17 secondswe were dealing with and of course we have to have empathy for ourselves when you’re in a state of fear right for all be you know I think it was a big error
55:2655 minutes, 26 secondsto some degree and everybody was scared and I don’t think it was malicious to create that fear initially um it stops us you know being being able
55:3555 minutes, 35 secondspsychologically it inhibits your ability to engage in critical thinking and all of us were in that position is there a risk now that if there was a deadly vac
55:4455 minutes, 44 secondsdeadly virus that broke out across the world people are so scared of vaccines now that they would not go and get it
55:5255 minutes, 52 secondsbecause there something I was saying to my friend the other day I was like we’ve gotten to a point now where I think so many people are skeptical about vaccines that if if something does come from
56:0056 minutesanother lab somewhere and it is really fatal and the government stand on that podium again and say hands face or
56:0856 minutes, 8 secondswhatever it was that slogan and they say um we need you to all go get this vaccine who’s going to go get it
56:1556 minutes, 15 secondsyeah no I I agree I don’t like that situation I don’t want us to be in this situ situation. But you’re right, there is and there will be another pandemic.
56:2256 minutes, 22 secondsThere there is a big risk and um the way around that is and this is what we’re taught as doctors,
56:2956 minutes, 29 secondsright? It’s one of the things that is ingrained into us as a medical school um is that when you make a mistake, you tell the patient.
Chapter 20: How are we meant to trust the government if this happens again?
56:3956 minutes, 39 secondsPatients are very forgiving if they think and know that you acted from a place of good intent cuz mistakes
56:4756 minutes, 47 secondshappen, things go wrong. this is what we need as a MIA culpa right I was willing to do that I mean in some way I was
56:5556 minutes, 55 secondspartly responsible certainly at the very early stage to support a vaccine roll out but I know that the most important
57:0357 minutes, 3 secondsthing for me to do when new information comes available and medicine again is not an exact science it evolves but let’s play that out let’s play that
57:1057 minutes, 10 secondsout so if we do if we had a situation where the I don’t know the scientist that said really positive things about the vaccine that it was side effect free
57:1857 minutes, 18 secondsor whatever They come out now and they say, “We were totally wrong.” And they say, “We got it.” So, so let’s let’s play out that scenario. What would
57:2557 minutes, 25 secondshappen the next day on social media is everybody who was criticized or critiqued or lost their job or was, I
57:3257 minutes, 32 secondsdon’t know, in some way penalized for their views that there might be side effects that we’re not talking about,
57:3857 minutes, 38 secondswould immediately go to their their base of their audience and say, “I told you so.” the conspiracy theorists on the
57:4557 minutes, 45 secondsinternet who are really extreme that believe that there’s a group of people wearing like tin hats that have come up with this idea, they would be empowered
57:5357 minutes, 53 secondsand what you’d then have is a situation where another vac another pandemic rolls in from a far away land. those people said, “Listen, you know, those people
58:0258 minutes, 2 secondsthat you see what I’m to say it it would in my mind it would fuel the um the
58:0958 minutes, 9 secondsnarrative that vaccines are bad and less like people would be less likely to take them because we’re not driven by facts,
58:1658 minutes, 16 secondsstats, graphs, and figures. We’re driven by emotion.”
58:1858 minutes, 18 secondsY it’s much more powerful than just if a scientist standing there and showing me a graph. It’s how I feel which matters the most. And if I felt
58:2658 minutes, 26 secondslike I was betrayed and lied to, there’s no chance that I’d run down and get another jab or something in my arm.
58:3458 minutes, 34 secondsIt’s an uncomfortable truth that needs facing though, Steve, because if we don’t face it, these problems are going to carry on. We’re not going to improve the situation by ignoring it and
58:4158 minutes, 41 secondssweeping under the carpet. So, there will be that, you’re right, there will be that backlash. I myself have had that, right? I’ve had people, you know,
58:4858 minutes, 48 secondsI I got heckled, you know, um a talk I gave on this for the first time when I spoke at it in London, um saying, “I was part of it all. You’re a liar.” All this
58:5758 minutes, 57 secondsstuff. Yeah, absolutely. I I got, you know, exploiters were thrown at me. And I I understand where that emotion comes from. But at the end of the day, the only way we can progress and evolve is it just accepting. But that, you know,
59:0959 minutes, 9 secondsbecause we want to then it’s not just about saying we got this wrong. It’s actually explaining to people and saying, “Okay, we thought we were doing the right thing. These are problems in
59:1759 minutes, 17 secondsthe system we weren’t aware of. Most people are not aware of this. We need to resolve this and move forward with greater transparency. And over time now,
59:2459 minutes, 24 secondsokay, within the immediate aftermath, of course, there’s going to be that emotional reaction. There’s going to be a backlash if there happen to be a pandemic within a short space of time
59:3259 minutes, 32 secondsafter that admission. Yes, it may well be that people aren’t going to go and take vaccines. But why should they, Steve? Vaccines are can save your life.
59:4059 minutes, 40 secondsNo, no, no. I’m talking about a new anything new. I’m not talking about So,
59:4259 minutes, 42 secondsyes, absolutely. Traditional vaccines. I mean, I’m still a big subscriber and supporter, let me just make this clear,
59:4859 minutes, 48 secondsof traditional vaccines. In my paper that I wrote, I said, you know,
59:5059 minutes, 50 secondsestimates suggest vaccines have saved 4 to 5 million lives a year. And the serious harm rate of vaccines, I think there’s, of course, there’s going to be
59:5859 minutes, 58 secondsnothing’s completely safe. No drug is pharmacist completely safe. But just in terms of published data, right, probably still an exaggeration, but still it gives you it gives you a comparison.
1:00:071 hour, 7 secondsSerious harm rate for traditional vaccines, 1 to two per million. All right. [snorts]
1:00:111 hour, 11 secondsPeople aren’t very people aren’t very smart, though. including me when it comes to when I hear the word vaccine I think all vaccines you think we don’t
1:00:181 hour, 18 secondsknow what a vaccine is so it’s just a word it’s like if you said to me dogs are savaging one in 800 people you know
1:00:271 hour, 27 secondsthe average person isn’t might not [laughter] the average person might not think if that’s a chihuahua or like a German shepherd we just heard dogs and then there’s going to be a fear of dogs
1:00:351 hour, 35 secondsand I think the same with the vaccines we don’t know the difference between different vaccines we just think they’re all the same so if you tell me that vaccines are causing x y and zed I’m
1:00:421 hour, 42 secondsgoing to go I don’t Yeah. If someone offers me a flu shot or whatever thing or whatever, it’s the trust that’s been eroded in the system and it’s my trust in the word vaccine that’s been eroded.
1:00:511 hour, 51 secondsYeah. No. And it’s it’s unfortunate.
1:00:521 hour, 52 secondsIt’s unfortunate that that that has definitely showed. There has been a dent and a change I think an uptake of things like MMR because of this.
1:01:001 hour, 1 minuteIt saved my life when I was a kid. I got my all my family got malaria. We were in Africa so they all got pretty bad malaria and uh
1:01:071 hour, 1 minute, 7 secondsso we yeah my pretty pretty serious as well. I think I almost died of uh malaria I hear from my mother.
1:01:131 hour, 1 minute, 13 secondsSteve the thing is with doial vaccines they went through many many years of safety checks right and this is an important thing people I think we
1:01:211 hour, 1 minute, 21 secondsshouldn’t underestimate people’s intelligence and their ability to understand and forgive as long as we communicate it in the right way. I have
1:01:301 hour, 1 minute, 30 secondsthese conversations all the time with my patients. You know I give them numbers.
1:01:331 hour, 1 minute, 33 secondsI talk through it. When I talk about statin drugs for example I say I’m going to give you these numbers but there are lots of caveats here. one the data has never been independently verified right
1:01:411 hour, 1 minute, 41 secondsand I give them all this and I give them alternatives etc I do this all the time and patients want that they want more information in a way that they can understand and of course yes they want
1:01:501 hour, 1 minute, 50 secondsto trust their doctor but again it’s all it comes down to ethics values intent and doctors not admitting their mistakes
1:01:571 hour, 1 minute, 57 secondsis a very very bad place to be the chair of the clinical cardiology at the University of Edinburgh professor Mark Dwek commented that um on your
1:02:051 hour, 2 minutes, 5 secondsopinion saying the co vaccines the co vaccine opinions you are misguided and in fact dangerous. The vast majority of cardiologists do not agree with your
1:02:131 hour, 2 minutes, 13 secondsviews and they are not based on robust science. Now, if you’re someone listening to this now, I’ve got your opinion and I’ve got this guy’s opinion,
1:02:221 hour, 2 minutes, 22 secondsthe chair of the clinical cardiology at the University of Edinburgh. I’ve got the NHS saying that vaccines are safe and extensively reviewed in both adults
1:02:291 hour, 2 minutes, 29 secondsand children and that the independent medicines and health care products regulatory agency is continually monitoring the safety of COVID vaccines
1:02:371 hour, 2 minutes, 37 secondsand reports of side effects are very rare. And then I’ve got your view. How do I as someone that’s hearing this in this year and this in this year figure
1:02:451 hour, 2 minutes, 45 secondsout what to believe because everyone’s so compelling. Everyone’s got data.
Chapter 21: How do we know who’s telling the truth?
1:02:511 hour, 2 minutes, 51 secondsWell, you just ultimately got to go with your own intuition. Steve, who my intuition is always going to side with fear because I’m a human being.
1:02:571 hour, 2 minutes, 57 secondsMay maybe and and this stuff works. Um I’ll come on to this and this was a bit of a hatchet job by the Guardian.
1:03:021 hour, 3 minutes, 2 secondsInterestingly, I’ve written 19 opeds for the Guardian Observer newspaper over the years, but you know how these how this journalism works. They’ll they’ll move
1:03:101 hour, 3 minutes, 10 secondson. Um a couple of things just couple of facts to throw back at you first and then what you’ve raised is really interesting historically and something that I’ve learned from this sort of
1:03:181 hour, 3 minutes, 18 secondsbacklash. um Mark Dwek with the greatest respect to him uh what wasn’t disclosed in the article is that he has taken
1:03:251 hour, 3 minutes, 25 secondsmoney from FISA he’s he’s he’s you know been funded by FISA and that’s factual you can look that up right that’s one thing so that’s a bias um the more
1:03:331 hour, 3 minutes, 33 secondsimportant than that the MH which was described as independent right yes is not the British medical journal BMJ did
1:03:421 hour, 3 minutes, 42 secondsan investigation published um in the summer of 2022 and I presented this data uh on the on the on
1:03:491 hour, 3 minutes, 49 secondsthe MH at the British Medical Association annual conference where the president of the BMA was there, the chair of the BMA was there, right? And
1:03:561 hour, 3 minutes, 56 secondsthey were gobsmacked and they didn’t they couldn’t believe and this is why this information is so important, these facts so important. The MA even I was
1:04:041 hour, 4 minutes, 4 secondsshocked when I read this our medical regulator in this country MH gets 86% of its funding from big farmer which is a huge bias. So they’re not independent.
1:04:131 hour, 4 minutes, 13 secondsSo those are those are the two facts that should at least if I threw that back you say hold on a minute then should I believe all this now what was the purpose of that article of course it
1:04:211 hour, 4 minutes, 21 secondswas to undermine my credibility I’m exposing essentially something you know it for all intents and purposes pretty horrific you know reluctantly on the BBC
1:04:301 hour, 4 minutes, 30 secondswith 25 million views or whatever else right um but people that inspire me have been through far worse right and and I’m
1:04:371 hour, 4 minutes, 37 secondsan activist that want to expose injustices right the likes of Mandela Gandhi Martin Luther One of the lessons from them and even in
1:04:451 hour, 4 minutes, 45 secondspublic health advocacy as soon as your work threatens an industry or an ideological cabal you will be attacked sometimes unrelentingly and viciously and that was really a hatchet job.
1:04:541 hour, 4 minutes, 54 secondsCan I what about the the second part of the quote that where he says that the vast majority of cardiologists do not agree with your views?
1:05:011 hour, 5 minutes, 1 secondUm is that true in your opinion? He’s giving his opinion, but actually um from every okay every cardiologist I spoke to
1:05:091 hour, 5 minutes, 9 secondshas basically said you’re going to do doing great work but they won’t speak out and this is part of the problem right is that people are turning a blind
1:05:161 hour, 5 minutes, 16 secondseye. I had uh one cardiologist um who met me in the street right these are I have this happens all the time and he
1:05:251 hour, 5 minutes, 25 secondssaid I read your paper he said I can tell you now although they won’t admit it publicly all the cardiologists in our department and they know you and they
1:05:331 hour, 5 minutes, 33 secondsand they they trust where you come from and your integrity none of them are having any more COVID vaccines because of you they’re on to it but Steve this
1:05:411 hour, 5 minutes, 41 secondsis a problem only a small minority of people are willing to speak out I have a platform where I’m able to articulate it and and do so. But that is my duty and
1:05:481 hour, 5 minutes, 48 secondsresponsibility. This is just a reflection of uh what is ultimately a big farmer tyranny. You know, I know you’ve interviewed Jordan Peterson, who
1:05:571 hour, 5 minutes, 57 secondsI um admire greatly. Uh and and Jordan Peterson says when you have something to say, silence is a lie. [snorts] And you
1:06:051 hour, 6 minutes, 5 secondsknow, tyranny tyranny emerges when people are afraid to say what they think. And when everybody essentially lies all the time by being silent,
1:06:141 hour, 6 minutes, 14 secondsthat’s when the tyranny is complete.
1:06:161 hour, 6 minutes, 16 secondsThis is exactly where we are. But I do want to mention something if you don’t if you don’t mind like I have to go through this right myself and it’s not
1:06:241 hour, 6 minutes, 24 secondseasy right you get all this stuff and people checking credibility and I remember when that that that Guardian hit piece which was like the you know the top story that day I actually felt
1:06:331 hour, 6 minutes, 33 secondsin many way feelings but I felt ah over the target here right because Gandhi said first they ignore you then they
1:06:401 hour, 6 minutes, 40 secondslaugh at you then they fight you then you win. So the point is these things work Steve but you know the truth is the
1:06:491 hour, 6 minutes, 49 secondstruth. So what is the reality then of your of your life going through that? Because you know if you get attacked from all angles, you’ve not got immediate family
1:06:571 hour, 6 minutes, 57 secondsthere, you’re you’re reading stuff about yourself online all the time, your colleagues, etc. are turning on you.
1:07:021 hour, 7 minutes, 2 secondsWhat what’s life like in if I’m a fly on the wall in those hard moments? Um very deep pain
1:07:111 hour, 7 minutes, 11 secondson to to to have the knowledge and deep an understanding that in my view we are
1:07:211 hour, 7 minutes, 21 secondsdealing with one of the greatest likely corporate crimes, medical mistakes,
1:07:271 hour, 7 minutes, 27 secondsdamage to people’s health. People are suffering, people are dying, people have got all sorts of problems because of this vaccine. to have that deep
1:07:341 hour, 7 minutes, 34 secondsknowledge and understanding and to not be able to see any great progress or
Chapter 22: What is it like to be attacked constantly?
1:07:411 hour, 7 minutes, 41 secondsenough progress for this to be resolved or to be improved. That suffering around me gives me very deep pain more than anything else.
1:07:521 hour, 7 minutes, 52 secondsWhy?
1:07:541 hour, 7 minutes, 54 secondsI think inherently I’m just very sensitive to that around me. That’s just the way I am. I think it’s part of my innate nature. I’ve always been like
1:08:011 hour, 8 minutes, 1 secondthat. You know, I had a I went for um you know, on the positive side, there are a lot of good friends around. You know, I haven’t got immediate emotional
1:08:091 hour, 8 minutes, 9 secondssupport, if that makes sense, right where I am, but there are hundreds of thousands of people that support me certainly who follow me on Twitter and I people come and meet me in the street. I
1:08:181 hour, 8 minutes, 18 secondsrandomly bumped into this doctor in the street who I didn’t know, an older doctor quite well known. I won’t name him. Um and he said he he got really
1:08:261 hour, 8 minutes, 26 secondsemotional in the street and he met me and he said, “Dr. Satra, thank you for everything you are doing with all of this. And I said, well, you know, I I tried to be as humble with it. I said,
1:08:351 hour, 8 minutes, 35 secondsI’m just a medium for a message. I’m doing the right thing. He said, no, what you’re doing is extremely brave and I’m with you 100% and I know the vaccine killed one of my colleagues, etc., etc.
1:08:421 hour, 8 minutes, 42 secondsAnd he was very honest. He said, I’m just too frightened to speak up,
1:08:451 hour, 8 minutes, 45 seconds[snorts]
1:08:451 hour, 8 minutes, 45 secondsbut that gives me fuel, right? And this this happens constantly. So, I think there is definitely something that I get from that. So let me summarize your
1:08:531 hour, 8 minutes, 53 secondsposition then because I want to move on to I want to talk about statins and heart disease and particularly high cholesterol because I got told by my doctor I have high high cholesterol. To
1:09:001 hour, 9 minutessummarize your position is you believe that vaccines themselves are net good for the world.
1:09:091 hour, 9 minutes, 9 secondsSome of the greatest achievements in medicine are traditional vaccines. No doubt. You believe that the COVID vaccine at the start when administered
1:09:161 hour, 9 minutes, 16 secondsto certain age groups that were most vulnerable there’s an argument to say that it was it was a net positive.
1:09:221 hour, 9 minutes, 22 secondsYeah, I think there’s an argument and that you believe after sort of 2022 or 2021 when the variant changed to
1:09:321 hour, 9 minutes, 32 secondsanother I think it was called omnicron wasn’t it? Um that at that point it certainly became a net negative. Is that your view? I would think probably earlier Steph and the only reason I say
1:09:401 hour, 9 minutes, 40 secondsthis is anecdotal evidence of course is my dad had a cardiac arrest in the summer of 2021 he was 73 right and he could be considered in a high-risisk
1:09:481 hour, 9 minutes, 48 secondsgroup so I think that if one was to make that case I would say well well it depends what we’re talking about as well
1:09:561 hour, 9 minutes, 56 secondsin terms of COVID yes right the net benefit in terms of COVID and COVID deaths but the problem is what’s the point in preventing someone getting
1:10:041 hour, 10 minutes, 4 secondsCOVID if six months later they’re going to die of a cardiac arrest you see what I mean So we’ve got to look at it in that nuanced way. But yeah, I think there is a case to be made that if
1:10:121 hour, 10 minutes, 12 secondsit was just given to certain high-risisk groups overall there may have been a net benefit at the beginning. But where we are now and where it’s continued and the
1:10:201 hour, 10 minutes, 20 secondsmandates and all the stuff that extended it to many more people taking it and that almost certainly was being fueled by FISA and that’s been shown that they
1:10:281 hour, 10 minutes, 28 secondswere you know giving money to grass credible grassroots organizations in the US to promote the mandates. Right? this
1:10:351 hour, 10 minutes, 35 secondsis after the data they received showing that it wasn’t preventing infection and causing serious harm. Right? So this is this is a problem with the system. I’m not blaming individuals here. This is
1:10:431 hour, 10 minutes, 43 secondssomething we’ll talk about with statins as well is that um the uh the system the corporate capitalist system or the way
1:10:501 hour, 10 minutes, 50 secondscapitalism is is actually being implemented is in its in many ways and
1:10:571 hour, 10 minutes, 57 secondsthis has been diagnosed by a forensic psychologist. uh the the corporation as an institution is psychopathic when it
1:11:051 hour, 11 minutes, 5 secondscomes to making money. That means they have callous unconcern for the safety of others, repeated lying, conning others for profit. And this is unfortunately this is the root of the problem.
1:11:151 hour, 11 minutes, 15 secondsAnd you also believe that there is a chance as well and it’s likely that the impacts of the lifestyle changes, the
1:11:231 hour, 11 minutes, 23 secondslockdowns etc. The stress, the mental health issues, the removing people from being able to see their loved ones, the sedentary lifestyles also contributed to
1:11:311 hour, 11 minutes, 31 secondsthe rise in heart related conditions and heart disease.
1:11:341 hour, 11 minutes, 34 seconds100%. It’s played a role. A smaller role, but it’s played a role 100%.
1:11:381 hour, 11 minutes, 38 secondsSo, I want to talk about heart disease because I don’t even know what heart disease is. And also, I don’t know what a heart attack is. I think we kind of all just assume we know, but what what is a what is a heart what’s heart
1:11:471 hour, 11 minutes, 47 secondsdisease and what’s a heart attack? So heart disease uh the conventional description or explanation of heart
1:11:561 hour, 11 minutes, 56 secondsdisease is disease that affects the blood vessels of the heart essentially.
1:12:021 hour, 12 minutes, 2 secondsOkay, that’s that’s coronary artery disease we call it.
1:12:051 hour, 12 minutes, 5 secondsThat’s what most people when they talk about heart disease that’s what they that’s what they mean. Um so that disease that affects the blood vessels
1:12:131 hour, 12 minutes, 13 secondsleads to buildup of something called plaque uh which is furring if you like.
1:12:191 hour, 12 minutes, 19 secondsOkay. Like a plaque.
1:12:211 hour, 12 minutes, 21 secondsPlaque. Yeah. So plaque is furring of the arteries like a blockage. Okay. Right. A blockage.
1:12:251 hour, 12 minutes, 25 secondsThat blockage is made up of uh cells of the immune system. It’s made up of cholesterol. Right. And over time that
Chapter 23: What causes heart disease?
1:12:341 hour, 12 minutes, 34 secondsthose blockages can either suddenly uh like a pimple building up and the pimple getting bigger and bigger and bigger or
1:12:411 hour, 12 minutes, 41 secondseven a small pimple suddenly bursting and the contents of that plaque, right?
1:12:471 hour, 12 minutes, 47 secondsThe response to um the blood having contact with the contents of that plaque that has built
1:12:551 hour, 12 minutes, 55 secondsup over time suddenly causes a clot to form. And if the clot blocks the whole artery then during the blood supply is completely cut off to the heart muscle.
1:13:051 hour, 13 minutes, 5 secondsSo the the purpose of those blood vessels is to supply the heart muscle with blood so it can contract. So if you
1:13:131 hour, 13 minutes, 13 secondshave a blockage that is there for several minutes completely cutting off the blood supply depending on where it is, it will cause that area of the heart
1:13:221 hour, 13 minutes, 22 secondsmuscle to lose its oxygen supply and nutrients and die and scar and that leads to cell death. But of course the
1:13:301 hour, 13 minutes, 30 secondsheart muscle is quite big. So it could be a very small heart attack, could be a big heart attack. And then so so heart attack specifically is death of any
1:13:371 hour, 13 minutes, 37 secondsregion of the heart muscle because of a blockage.
1:13:411 hour, 13 minutes, 41 secondsOkay, I’m going to try the death of the cells.
1:13:441 hour, 13 minutes, 44 secondsI’m going to try and play this back to you. Yeah,
1:13:451 hour, 13 minutes, 45 secondscorrect me if I’m wrong. So, you get this buildup in your artery. Yeah.
1:13:491 hour, 13 minutes, 49 secondsBut due to a bunch of factors I was talking about, the buildup explodes. Yes.
1:13:551 hour, 13 minutes, 55 secondsFlows through the blood blocking the artery at some point. Yes.
1:13:581 hour, 13 minutes, 58 secondsAnd then that blockage in the artery causes a cell in the heart, some areas in the heart to die because they’re not getting oxygen.
1:14:061 hour, 14 minutes, 6 secondsExactly. So, so you you’re cut you’ve basically cut off the blood supply. So it’s cutting off the blood supply to whatever area because there are many branches. It depends where the blockage is. You cut off the blood supply. If it’s cut off for long enough,
1:14:161 hour, 14 minutes, 16 secondsthose cells, every cell in our body needs oxygen to survive, right? Then that those that part of the heart muscle will die and become scarred.
1:14:231 hour, 14 minutes, 23 secondsSo it dies and becomes scarred in about seven 7 8 minutes. You said it can well it can take you know 15 to 20 minutes. It depends on different factors but within minutes. Yes.
1:14:331 hour, 14 minutes, 33 secondsAnd how does that feel from minute one till minute sort of 10?
1:14:361 hour, 14 minutes, 36 secondsSo the classic symptoms of a heart attack, right? that is a central what we call crushing heaviness or pain that can
1:14:451 hour, 14 minutes, 45 secondstravel radiate we say in medical terms to the neck the jaw it can go into the shoulders um it can go into the back
1:14:531 hour, 14 minutes, 53 secondsthat’s the classic symptoms or down the left arm and you’re conscious at this point yes you’re conscious so a cardiac arrest just means the heart stopping ultimately
1:15:021 hour, 15 minutes, 2 secondsactually we all have a cardiac arrest when we die the last thing to go is our heart right but um one of the most common causes of a cardiac arrest certainly prematurely, not because of
1:15:101 hour, 15 minutes, 10 secondsold age, for example, is um and this is random. So you can have a heart attack and you can be conscious and have pain and you get to hospital and you get
1:15:181 hour, 15 minutes, 18 secondsdiagnosed and you might have a you know a stent put in or you might be put on blood thinners or whatever. Um in a certain proportion of people um and it
1:15:271 hour, 15 minutes, 27 secondsdoesn’t depend on the size of the heart attack. So um you can have a big area of the heart muscle that’s damaged or a small area of the heart muscle that
1:15:341 hour, 15 minutes, 34 secondsdamaged and it’s random that it can cause an interruption in the normal electrical activity of the heart. The heart has electrical circuit that allows
1:15:421 hour, 15 minutes, 42 secondsit to pump. Right? There’s an electrical circuit that allows it to pump in a certain you know in a in a in a regular rhythm. that circuit can get interrupted
1:15:511 hour, 15 minutes, 51 secondsand then the heart muscle that’s pumping like this right because it’s pumping all the blood around your body to your brain everything else suddenly starts
1:15:571 hour, 15 minutes, 57 secondsquivering right uh and that’s known as ventricular fibrillation that’s when you see on all the you know on movies or on TV shows and stuff like
1:16:061 hour, 16 minutes, 6 secondsthat when they start shocking people and that shows on the heart tracing as a kind of squiggle like this okay right and that is what we call a
1:16:131 hour, 16 minutes, 13 secondsshockable rhythm if you deliver a shock you know often 200 jewels right is is delivered with a defibrillator that will
1:16:201 hour, 16 minutes, 20 secondsoften restart the heart into a normal rhythm and then the patient can be managed and treated for example. So that’s but that quivering of the heart causes basically the heart to stop
1:16:291 hour, 16 minutes, 29 secondspumping blood around the body. The heart’s still moving but it’s not enough to pump blood around the body and if that’s going for a very long time Steve not lot long you know for example in my
1:16:381 hour, 16 minutes, 38 secondsdad’s case it may have been similar 20 or 30 minutes then eventually then you know that will even stop and patient dies. So, I’ve read some stats from a different source that said in the UK,
1:16:481 hour, 16 minutes, 48 secondsone in eight men and one in 14 women die from conory heart disease over the course of their lifetime and that nearly
1:16:551 hour, 16 minutes, 55 seconds50% of all US adults have some type of heart disease. Um, and before the pandemic hit in 2019, 12 children died
1:17:021 hour, 17 minutes, 2 secondsevery single week in the UK from cardiac arrest. So, I mean, this is if anything’s going to kill me, it’s probably this.
1:17:101 hour, 17 minutes, 10 secondsYes, most likely. So, how do I stop it? [laughter] Right.
1:17:151 hour, 17 minutes, 15 secondsUm, how do you stop it? How do you even reverse it? How about some statins? Yeah. So, okay,
1:17:201 hour, 17 minutes, 20 secondslet me just say this. My doctor, I got my lab results back like 3 days ago,
1:17:241 hour, 17 minutes, 24 secondsand he told me a couple of things. One thing he told me is, “You got load vitamin D.” I said, “Fine, yeah, get it.
1:17:281 hour, 17 minutes, 28 secondsI’m in a room all day.” Uh, the second thing he said is, “Your cholesterol is high.” He said, “Your bad cholesterol is high.” And I I don’t really know what to
1:17:361 hour, 17 minutes, 36 secondsmake of that, but he said, “Your your bad cholesterol is high, and I need to get that down.”
1:17:411 hour, 17 minutes, 41 secondsUm, my father takes statins, which I know a lot of people take statins. I think it’s like 200 million people are
1:17:481 hour, 17 minutes, 48 secondstaking statins globally. Um, so because I have you here, what do you think of of
1:17:551 hour, 17 minutes, 55 secondswhat the advice I was given, which is just to get my bad cholesterol down and how do I prevent myself ending up on either statins or having a heart attack?
Chapter 24: How to stop heart disease
1:18:041 hour, 18 minutes, 4 secondsOkay. So on the statins issue and the cholesterol issue traditionally Steve
1:18:101 hour, 18 minutes, 10 secondsfor uh decades and even now the one of the the primary focus within medicine
1:18:181 hour, 18 minutes, 18 secondswithin cardiology to combat heart disease was to get your so-called bad cholesterol LDL as low as possible. So LDL means bad cholesterol.
1:18:261 hour, 18 minutes, 26 secondsIt’s called low density lipoprotein which is the bad stuff.
1:18:291 hour, 18 minutes, 29 secondsIt’s so well it’s thought of conventionally as a bad cholesterol.
1:18:331 hour, 18 minutes, 33 secondsRight. And the reason for that is is that earlier studies that were done on
1:18:411 hour, 18 minutes, 41 secondsuh the correlation that was found between high cholesterol and heart disease [snorts]
1:18:451 hour, 18 minutes, 45 secondsum revealed that very high levels of total cholesterol. There was a very high
1:18:521 hour, 18 minutes, 52 secondsum prevalence of heart disease. But those levels of of cholesterol go and we go we’re talking about going back from
1:18:591 hour, 18 minutes, 59 secondsyou know studies that started in 1948 that went over three decades where they they found cholesterol being associated with heart disease was only really there
1:19:081 hour, 19 minutes, 8 secondsat very very high levels. That’s the first thing.
1:19:121 hour, 19 minutes, 12 secondsThe second part of it and why they thought that getting it as low as possible was the solution is that people who had very low levels of cholesterol tended not get heart disease. Right?
1:19:221 hour, 19 minutes, 22 secondsTotal cholesterol less than four, LDL less than two mill moles. Let’s just say that for argument sake, less than 2 mill moles per liter. And by the way, just so
1:19:311 hour, 19 minutes, 31 secondsjust so people understand this, you would have got a red mark probably saying that your LDL cholesterol is high if it’s more now the the guideline suggests if it’s more than three mill
1:19:391 hour, 19 minutes, 39 secondsmoles per liter in your blood. The measurement that is considered high, but we we we’ll we’ll tear that we’ll tease that apart in a second. Now the thinking
1:19:471 hour, 19 minutes, 47 secondswas that okay if people with low cholesterol are not getting heart disease and people with very high levels of cholesterol are getting heart disease
1:19:551 hour, 19 minutes, 55 secondsand that was total cholesterol above 10 for example right and LDL’s above seven or eight massively high right then or or
1:20:031 hour, 20 minutes, 3 secondsor more likely to get heart disease at significant numbers uh the thinking was that the lower the better so all these drug
1:20:111 hour, 20 minutes, 11 secondstrials started but there’s one thing missing first and foremost most is that most people’s cholesterol Steve LDL is genetic.
1:20:201 hour, 20 minutes, 20 seconds80% of your cholesterol because cholesterol is a very So why have we got it? It’s a very vital molecule in the body. It’s without cholesterol we would die. It’s required for maintaining the integrity of cells and cell membranes.
1:20:311 hour, 20 minutes, 31 secondsIt’s required for hormone production,
1:20:331 hour, 20 minutes, 33 secondsright? It has a role in the immune system. So it’s really important vital molecule in the body. You can change the profile of the cholesterol. There are
1:20:401 hour, 20 minutes, 40 secondsdifferent components. There’s something called triglycerides which is a blood fat and HDL so called good cholesterol and LDL through dietary changes but
1:20:481 hour, 20 minutes, 48 secondspredominantly it’s genetic initially right so this is a thing so that does that so so one could then question maybe
1:20:561 hour, 20 minutes, 56 secondsthose people in those original studies had genetically high cholesterol but that doesn’t mean the cholesterol was the problem there may been something
1:21:041 hour, 21 minutes, 4 secondselse that hadn’t been measured that we hadn’t discovered yet that was genetic that was causing the heart disease but it happened to also beausing causing a
1:21:111 hour, 21 minutes, 11 secondsraised LDL. At the same time, people with low cholesterol, they may have had something else, right? They may have had other factors that we now know actually
1:21:201 hour, 21 minutes, 20 secondsare linked to heart disease and it’s something to do with the cholesterol. So that’s the first thing. The next question is um does lowering cholesterol? So the question to you is does lowering your LDL make any
1:21:281 hour, 21 minutes, 28 secondsdifference? And for many many years there was a mantra that was pushed by the medical establishment that there was
1:21:361 hour, 21 minutes, 36 secondsa linear relationship. The lower your LDL, the less likely you are to get heart disease. In fact, there was a a a commentary written by one of America’s most well-known eminent cardiologists.
1:21:461 hour, 21 minutes, 46 secondsHe was the editor of the American Journal of Cardiology. His name was William Roberts. And he wrote an article in 2011 to try and push the cholesterol
1:21:541 hour, 21 minutes, 54 secondsmessage further. So more people, most more people take cholesterol drug statins. And it was called it’s the cholesterol stupid. And there’s a line
1:22:011 hour, 22 minutes, 1 secondin that which I mentioned in my book where he said you can be an obese diabetic sedentary smoker
1:22:111 hour, 22 minutes, 11 secondsbut as long as your cholesterol is low enough in other words total LDL cholesterol you will not develop heart disease. Think about that for a second. Now I’m just putting that to you Steve.
1:22:191 hour, 22 minutes, 19 secondsNow you hearing that what is does that sound plausible to you? No.
1:22:231 hour, 22 minutes, 23 secondsRight. It doesn’t does it. It sounds a bit strange doesn’t it? Right. And I thought this is odd.
1:22:291 hour, 22 minutes, 29 secondsI started looking into this in a lot of detail probably 2010 partly because by the end of the by by the late 90s the
1:22:371 hour, 22 minutes, 37 secondspeople who had discovered the relationship with very high LDL cholesterol which is actually by the way genetically linked to a condition called
1:22:451 hour, 22 minutes, 45 secondsfamilial hyper lipidmia affects one in 250 people right people’s cholesterol is skyhigh um those people who got the Nobel prize
1:22:541 hour, 22 minutes, 54 secondsfor this discovery said they predicted the almost the eradication of heart disease in the world by the early 2000s
1:23:021 hour, 23 minutes, 2 secondsbecause we had discovered these drugs called statin drugs that lower cholesterol and are shown through clinical trials to prevent heart attacks
1:23:091 hour, 23 minutes, 9 secondsand strokes and death which we’ll come on to. Right? So you’ve got the combination of that. But before statins came onto the market and have been prescribed now to 200 million people,
1:23:191 hour, 23 minutes, 19 secondsone of the things that isn’t talked about enough is that there were lots of trials done. So you’ve got this hypothesis now. We think we’re right here. We’ve discovered that very high
1:23:271 hour, 23 minutes, 27 secondscholesterol in the population has got a strong link to heart disease. And we’ve discovered that very low cholesterol doesn’t give heart disease. But by the way, what’s interesting is for 95% of
1:23:361 hour, 23 minutes, 36 secondsthe population in the middle, there was no relationship with who was going to develop heart disease and who wasn’t depending on the based upon their cholesterol. Okay. But they thought,
1:23:461 hour, 23 minutes, 46 secondslet’s develop these drugs to lower cholesterol and we prevent heart attack.
1:23:481 hour, 23 minutes, 48 secondsSo all the drug trials, Steve, before statins came on the market did not show any benefit. So, you’ve got the trial where you’ve got someone with high cholesterol and and another person with
1:23:561 hour, 23 minutes, 56 secondshigh cholesterol. One person gets a drug, the other person doesn’t. You follow them up. The person on the drug massively lowers the cholesterol. No prevention heart attacks over several years. Like, hold on. What’s going on here? Maybe we did the trial wrong.
1:24:061 hour, 24 minutes, 6 secondsLet’s try again. Let’s try again. Let’s try again. Statins are produced. Okay. A different type of cholesterol-lowering drug. And suddenly you start seeing
1:24:151 hour, 24 minutes, 15 secondsbenefits. Hearts. Oh, great. We’ve solved it. Then we can make this case that the lower cholesterol are better.
1:24:211 hour, 24 minutes, 21 secondsTwo problems with that. The first one is that statins actually have other properties other than lowering LDL cholesterol.
1:24:301 hour, 24 minutes, 30 secondsThey are also anti-inflammatory and they have anti- clotting properties.
1:24:351 hour, 24 minutes, 35 secondsWhat’s accepted now is we know heart disease is a problem is a a is a clotting problem linked to chronic inflammation. So it means the benefit of
1:24:431 hour, 24 minutes, 43 secondsstatins which I will give you in a second, right? is probably more likely because of those properties because other studies when we did other drugs on cholesterol there was no benefit. Does that make sense? Am I making sense now?
1:24:531 hour, 24 minutes, 53 secondsYeah. So it’s targeting the inflammation and the clotting.
1:24:551 hour, 24 minutes, 55 secondsExactly. So the question then is what is the benefit of statins? So the first thing to say and this is where the controversy has happened um is that what
1:25:051 hour, 25 minutes, 5 secondsI’m about to tell you is again based upon drug industry sponsored trials where the raw data on those trials with
Chapter 25: The shocking truth about statins
1:25:131 hour, 25 minutes, 13 secondsthe benefits I’m going to tell you has never been independently verified. So what I say to patients and I’ll say this to you is what I’m about to tell you is
1:25:201 hour, 25 minutes, 20 secondslikely in my opinion an exaggerated benefit but it’s still a benefit. I’m going to tell you if we trust the drug companies completely, this is a benefit
1:25:291 hour, 25 minutes, 29 secondsyou’re going to get. Steve, if you’ve not had a heart attack, forget about high cholesterol for a second, right?
1:25:331 hour, 25 minutes, 33 secondsThis applies to everybody. If you’ve not had a heart attack or you have not been diagnosed with severe blockages, right? You’ve not got
1:25:411 hour, 25 minutes, 41 secondsthat, right? And you would you would know if you did because you’d get symptoms of chest pain doing exercise.
1:25:461 hour, 25 minutes, 46 secondsThen the benefit of a statin for you over a fiveyear period at best is one in 100 in preventing you having a nonfatal
1:25:551 hour, 25 minutes, 55 secondsheart attack, a nondisabling stroke but will not prolong your life by one day.
1:26:011 hour, 26 minutes, 1 secondSo that’s the first thing. Now when you do studies where you give patient that information in that transparent way more
1:26:091 hour, 26 minutes, 9 secondsthan twothirds of them most of them will and I my experience as well say doc those odds don’t sound great I want to prevent heart disease but I don’t fancy taking and this is before by the way
1:26:161 hour, 26 minutes, 16 secondswe’ve talked about side effects where the controversy has happened which I’ve been heavily involved in is in my experience with with patients and also
1:26:251 hour, 26 minutes, 25 secondsother data that’s out there a large proportion of patients will suffer quality let me be clear Here it’s not
1:26:321 hour, 26 minutes, 32 secondsabout serious, right? Quality of life limiting side effects, right? That means most commonly fatigue, muscle pain, can be erectile dysfunction, sleep
1:26:411 hour, 26 minutes, 41 secondsdisturbance, but stuff that makes you don’t feel you don’t feel good like this is not a good way to live.
1:26:451 hour, 26 minutes, 45 seconds[snorts and gasps] The good news is it’s reversible usually within a couple weeks of stopping the statin or reducing the dose. Okay. So that controversy uh led
1:26:531 hour, 26 minutes, 53 secondsto me publishing an article in the British Medical Journal in 2013 where me and another and a Harvard doctor in a separate article said we we believe that the side effect rate is probably in the
1:27:021 hour, 27 minutes, 2 secondsorder of one in five people 20 20% which is quite high of those sorts of side effects right [snorts] and that caused a bit of backlash because the group of
1:27:111 hour, 27 minutes, 11 secondsresearchers in Oxford who take money from big farmer who write the guidelines around the world said this is going to scare people stop them taking statins
1:27:181 hour, 27 minutes, 18 secondsand people will die but that for the low-risisk people, no one’s going to die because there’s no benefit in mortality.
1:27:251 hour, 27 minutes, 25 secondsNow, for high-risisk people, those are people who have had a heart attack.
1:27:291 hour, 27 minutes, 29 secondsUm, the benefit of a statin is is better, Steve. Okay. So, let’s say, for example, some patient comes in, they’ve had a heart attack, and I’m telling them the benefit of the statin if they take
1:27:381 hour, 27 minutes, 38 secondsit religiously every day for five uh five years because that’s how long the trials last where you can give them that information. The benefit of preventing a
1:27:461 hour, 27 minutes, 46 secondsfurther heart attack is 1 in 39, about 2.5%. 1 in 39 and the benefit in prolonging their life is 1 in 83.
1:27:561 hour, 27 minutes, 56 secondsRight? There’s another way of looking at the stats though based upon again industry sponsored trials all of the trials that have been done on statins
1:28:051 hour, 28 minutes, 5 secondsand people might ask a question. They don’t often ask this but they may ask the question how much longer am I going to live?
1:28:111 hour, 28 minutes, 11 secondsRight? Like okay let’s just throw this question to you. Say you’ve had a heart attack. You survived a heart attack.
1:28:171 hour, 28 minutes, 17 secondsdoctor says take this drug and and over a fiveyear period, how much extra life
1:28:241 hour, 28 minutes, 24 secondsex life life extension would you hope or hope it would add over that five years?
1:28:271 hour, 28 minutes, 27 secondsYou can, you know, you can do it over whatever 20 years, but just say 5 years to start with. How much longer would you hope to live from taking that statin?
1:28:341 hour, 28 minutes, 34 secondsOkay, so over five years then I’d say um maybe a year. Okay. 25% more.
1:28:391 hour, 28 minutes, 39 secondsOkay, fine. That sounds that sounds pretty good. 20% more. Yeah. Okay.
1:28:431 hour, 28 minutes, 43 secondsUm the actual figure not disputed from industry sponsored trials right 4.2 two days, just over four days.
1:28:521 hour, 28 minutes, 52 secondsIs that because they haven’t done it over a long enough period of time?
1:28:551 hour, 28 minutes, 55 secondsNo. I mean, and then if you then extrapolate it out, if you presume the benefits are going to keep going on, you could then argue, well, over 10 years it’ll be 8 days and over 20 years it’ll
1:29:041 hour, 29 minutes, 4 secondsbe 16 days or whatever, right? So, so that’s the information. So, this the reason I’m I’m I’m telling you this,
1:29:101 hour, 29 minutes, 10 secondsSteve, is that this information is important. I’m not just a doctor. I’m a potential patient. I ask myself, what would I want to know,
1:29:181 hour, 29 minutes, 18 secondsright? I am here to try and improve my quality of life and my health. What is important to me? What is important to patients? This information is important
1:29:261 hour, 29 minutes, 26 secondsespecially Steve because it’s not that I’m saying don’t take statins. A lot of people will say okay I’ll take the drug right and if they don’t get side effects why not you know it might be a bit of a
1:29:331 hour, 29 minutes, 33 secondslottery but why not take the drug and the people say that to me and that’s fine and if they get side effects but the thing that’s missing Steve is and this is where we come on to the question you asked me about how to prevent heart
1:29:421 hour, 29 minutes, 42 secondsdisease. Is there an alternative that doesn’t give me side effects, improves my quality of life, and likely is going
1:29:491 hour, 29 minutes, 49 secondsto help prevent stop me getting heart disease? So, what is that? Lifestyle changes.
1:29:551 hour, 29 minutes, 55 secondsAbsolutely. So, 80% of heart disease is linked to environment and lifestyle.
1:30:011 hour, 30 minutes, 1 secondOkay. So what is the the core most important biological phenomenon in the body that leads to heart disease which
1:30:101 hour, 30 minutes, 10 secondsis not disputed but doesn’t get it doesn’t get much of a um there’s no market for the message because there is no you can’t commodify this this is an
1:30:181 hour, 30 minutes, 18 secondsinteresting thing right so but it’s it’s really important information it’s called insulin resistance insulin is a very important hormone in the body released
1:30:251 hour, 30 minutes, 25 secondsby the pancreas helps maintain blood glucose within certain ranges so our cells can function optimally all Right?
1:30:321 hour, 30 minutes, 32 secondsOver time, if your insulin is chronically raised too high or if your cells become resistant to them for
1:30:401 hour, 30 minutes, 40 secondswhatever reason, that is the most important driver of the development of these so-called plaques, these furring, these blockages in the arteries.
1:30:471 hour, 30 minutes, 47 seconds[snorts]
1:30:481 hour, 30 minutes, 48 secondsSo, what causes insulin resistance and how can you combat it or how, you know, how can you prevent and and potentially, you know, stabilize and even reverse?
1:30:551 hour, 30 minutes, 55 secondsWe’ll go on to reversal as well because that’s a fascinating area. [gasps]
1:31:001 hour, 31 minutesmost important components diet. Okay, I would say in big figure
1:31:071 hour, 31 minutes, 7 secondsterms now probably 50% of heart disease around the world can be linked to poor diet.
1:31:161 hour, 31 minutes, 16 secondsOkay, so let’s start with diet then.
1:31:171 hour, 31 minutes, 17 secondsI’ve actually got a bag of sugar that I’ve brought with me because um when I think about insulin glucose bad diet,
1:31:241 hour, 31 minutes, 24 secondsthe first thing my my brain thinks about is sugar. So, I’ve got this bag of sugar here that I brought with me. Um, and I’ve got two Look at us. We’ve we’ve
1:31:331 hour, 31 minutes, 33 secondswritten sugar on it and covered up the brand because they didn’t pay us. But,
1:31:361 hour, 31 minutes, 36 secondsif there is a sugar brand that would like to do a brand deal, please get in touch. [laughter] We’re big fans if we need to be. Um,
1:31:421 hour, 31 minutes, 42 secondswhat I actually would like you to to show me is how much sugar do I need to function and to be healthy.
1:31:501 hour, 31 minutes, 50 secondsOkay. The amount of sugar that you need to function and be healthy is zero.
1:31:541 hour, 31 minutes, 54 secondsThere is no nutritional requirement whatsoever of of of this what we call added sugar or table sugar. None at all.
1:32:031 hour, 32 minutes, 3 secondsSo I don’t need any.
1:32:041 hour, 32 minutes, 4 secondsYou don’t need any. And the reason for that is very briefly our bodies need glucose to survive. But you don’t need any dietary source of glucose to
Chapter 26: The average amount of sugar consumed
1:32:121 hour, 32 minutes, 12 secondssurvive. Right? Because your people go on what we call ketogenic diets and they literally eliminate all starch as well which also contains glucose um from
1:32:211 hour, 32 minutes, 21 secondstheir diet. Your body will make it itself from fat and protein. So in terms of diet, there is no value from sugar
1:32:281 hour, 32 minutes, 28 secondswhatsoever. It can give you energy of course, yes, but you can get energy from other things, but there’s no nutritional value whatsoever. Zero. So from a from a
1:32:361 hour, 32 minutes, 36 secondshealth perspective, there is zero requirement for dietary sugar.
1:32:411 hour, 32 minutes, 41 secondsSo when we say that Americans are consuming a lot of sugar every day, are we talking about added sugar? Yeah,
1:32:461 hour, 32 minutes, 46 secondswe’re talking about so the way that so the World Health Organization now um after I was involved in this
1:32:541 hour, 32 minutes, 54 secondscampaign, you know, and there was a lot of attention on it, they revise their guidelines. So they recommend a maximum limit for the average adult of actually
1:33:021 hour, 33 minutes, 2 secondssix teaspoons of either um so maximum limit, okay, which you don’t need it,
1:33:061 hour, 33 minutes, 6 secondsbut maximum limit because after that that’s when the health consequences start to accumulate. One, two,
1:33:151 hour, 33 minutes, 15 seconds3, 4, 5,
1:33:231 hour, 33 minutes, 23 secondssix.
1:33:241 hour, 33 minutes, 24 secondsOkay. So, that’s the maximum daily limit.
1:33:261 hour, 33 minutes, 26 secondsMaximum daily limit. Okay. But just to give you an example, that’s not let’s so one sugary drink, we don’t name any
1:33:341 hour, 33 minutes, 34 secondsbrands, right? You would have to would often a 330 mil let’s say the most famous sugary drink uh in the world I have no idea who you’re talking about
1:33:411 hour, 33 minutes, 41 secondswould have nine teaspoons on top nine spoons in one of those right and that’s just in the 330 mil imagine going to the cinema and having half a liter whatever
1:33:491 hour, 33 minutes, 49 secondselse right Jesus so one can of beep um has nine teaspoons of sugar in it which is
1:33:561 hour, 33 minutes, 56 secondswhich is so four yeah absolutely so four grams is one teaspoon okay which is well above the daily recommended daily maximum one chocolate bar.
1:34:061 hour, 34 minutes, 6 secondsYeah.
1:34:061 hour, 34 minutes, 6 secondsLike a standard size chocolate bar. What we grew up with about the same. Leave leave chocolate out of it.
1:34:111 hour, 34 minutes, 11 secondsRight. [laughter] Well, listen, you know, dark chocolate. I love chocolate, right? Have you know um for children,
1:34:171 hour, 34 minutes, 17 secondsthe US Department of Agriculture, for the average 4 to 8year-old child, think about kids as well. They’re the most vulnerable to a lot of this pro these problems of sugar. They recommend a maximum limit of three teaspoons.
1:34:291 hour, 34 minutes, 29 secondsYeah. Now the average person in this country in America is consuming at least 20 teaspoons. Now when we talk about
1:34:371 hour, 34 minutes, 37 secondssugar we’re talking about world health they they the word they use is free sugars. So it means this sort of sugar added right to foods. Um but it also includes fruit juice,
1:34:471 hour, 34 minutes, 47 secondshoney and syrups.
1:34:501 hour, 34 minutes, 50 secondssame effect on your body. The that I fruit, whole fruit is fine, but if you think about it, um a glass of orange
1:34:581 hour, 34 minutes, 58 secondsjuice, for example, would usually have the uh the juice of six oranges. Okay?
1:35:051 hour, 35 minutes, 5 secondsYou couldn’t eat six oranges that easily. You’d have one orange, for example. And there’s fiber, and the fiber does has a counteracting effect on
1:35:121 hour, 35 minutes, 12 secondsterms of the way that the um the glucose and fructose is affected absorbed in your body. A lot of it’s to do with the rapid increase in the bloodstream of
1:35:201 hour, 35 minutes, 20 secondsblood glucose and and that causes huge spikes in insulin. And the problem with that over time, of course, is you get
1:35:281 hour, 35 minutes, 28 secondschronically raised insulin and heart disease. But also, interestingly, the more rapidly you have a food that causes a glucose spike, the more quickly you’re
1:35:351 hour, 35 minutes, 35 secondsgoing to get a crash because insulin goes up quite quickly and it causes to come down and it drives hunger. Yeah.
1:35:401 hour, 35 minutes, 40 secondsSo, that’s another problem. So, the food industry, I think, knew for a long time.
1:35:441 hour, 35 minutes, 44 secondsThat’s why you know in America and it may be similar here 70% of foods purchased in supermarket in America will have added sugar because they knew that
1:35:521 hour, 35 minutes, 52 secondsit increases the palatability and the consumption. Of course they’re there to sell food not look after your health.
1:35:571 hour, 35 minutes, 57 secondsSo you said 20 teaspoons is the average for an American. At least 20 is probably much higher.
1:36:021 hour, 36 minutes, 2 secondsI’m going to have I’m going to have to ask you to show us that. Yeah.
1:36:051 hour, 36 minutes, 5 secondsSo I can see what that looks like in a glass.
1:36:071 hour, 36 minutes, 7 secondsIt’s disgusting. That’s disgusting when you see it like that. And you don’t you don’t realize that you’re having that much sugar in a day. But I mean,
1:36:161 hour, 36 minutes, 16 secondstechnically that’s what two cans of fizzy drink.
1:36:201 hour, 36 minutes, 20 secondsYeah. Yeah. But the thing is a lot of the sugar that’s being consumed are in foods that people wouldn’t think have sugar in them. They’re not the usual
1:36:271 hour, 36 minutes, 27 secondsjunk food, your cakes and biscuits and whatever else, you know. Um they’re in things even marketed as being healthy. Low-fat foods, etc., low-fat yogurts.
1:36:361 hour, 36 minutes, 36 secondsSo, could you just summarize what we have here then? These two glasses.
1:36:391 hour, 36 minutes, 39 secondsYeah. So this is the maximum daily recommended limit by the World Health Organization of sugar consumption after which you then start to see increases
1:36:481 hour, 36 minutes, 48 secondsrisks of disease. Um and this is what at least I think what most people are consuming at the moment.
1:36:591 hour, 36 minutes, 59 secondsAre you hopeful that there’s something we can do about this [snorts] at a society level? Well, I think one important step was the fact that we in,
1:37:061 hour, 37 minutes, 6 secondsyou know, this levy on sugary drinks definitely would have some um impact partly based upon what we learned from big tobacco. You know, Steve, you know,
1:37:161 hour, 37 minutes, 16 seconds50% of it’s interesting, crazy when you think about it now. In 1970, 50% of adults in the UK were smokers, right?
1:37:241 hour, 37 minutes, 24 secondsWe’ve got that down to about 17% now,
1:37:261 hour, 37 minutes, 26 secondsbut massive reduction, right? And it happened. Education was important, but the real the real intervention that had
1:37:341 hour, 37 minutes, 34 secondsmore um impact than anything else was actually taxation of cigarettes. And it
1:37:411 hour, 37 minutes, 41 secondshad twofold effect. Of course, you make it a little bit more expensive. You know, you know this with your business background, right? It’s going to reduce the the consumption, but it was a way of
Chapter 27: Are you hopeful we can overcome our sugar addictions?
1:37:491 hour, 37 minutes, 49 secondsalso increasing awareness that this is harmful. So, I think that the sugar stuff is ongoing and I think a lot of people have awareness on it. I think now
1:37:581 hour, 37 minutes, 58 secondswhich is linked to sugar the and I’ve written about this we need to treat ultrarocessed food which a lot of the
1:38:051 hour, 38 minutes, 5 secondsultrarocessed food has added sugar as the new tobacco right this is more than 50% of the calories in the UK and more than 60% of
1:38:131 hour, 38 minutes, 13 secondsthe calories in the US is of people’s daily consumption is coming from ultrarocessed foods essentially
1:38:191 hour, 38 minutes, 19 secondsdescribed as if it comes out of a packet industrially produced and you can read more than five ingredients usually with
1:38:271 hour, 38 minutes, 27 secondsadditives and preservatives, it’s ultrarocessed and best avoided. And all of the research that’s been done only points in one direction. And I think
1:38:341 hour, 38 minutes, 34 secondsthere are at least 32 different conditions or diseases now that are associated with the consumption of ultrarocessed food. That is the major issue. So because this is a predominantly an environmental problem,
1:38:451 hour, 38 minutes, 45 secondsright? Our our our food our food environment is saturated with this stuff. Even hospitals, Steve, I mean I the first campaign I got involved with is trying to get this stuff out of
Chapter 28: Ultra-processed foods need to be treated like the new tobacco
1:38:521 hour, 38 minutes, 52 secondshospital. I was like, hold on. We’re treating patients with obesity related conditions, yet we’re serving them junk food in hospitals. The staff, 50% of NHS staff are overweight or obese.
1:39:001 hour, 39 minutesWhat’s the probability that if I’m, cuz I want to talk about ultressed foods as well as the shoes, what’s the probability that if I’m having that much
1:39:071 hour, 39 minutes, 7 secondssugar a day, the big glass, that I’m going to end up in your practice with some kind of heart disease.
1:39:141 hour, 39 minutes, 14 secondsI I wouldn’t be able to give you a figure, but you’re definitely significantly increasing your risk. Well, if that’s the average American,
1:39:201 hour, 39 minutes, 20 secondsthen what’s the average American’s chance of ending up in I guess causation needs to be established.
1:39:241 hour, 39 minutes, 24 secondsYeah, of course. And it depends what else they’re having as well. But but it’s definitely putting them at significant increased risk of type 2 diabetes. I think the figure now in
1:39:321 hour, 39 minutes, 32 secondsAmerica, if I’m not wrong, is that a third to a half of adult Americans now are um pre-diabetic.
1:39:401 hour, 39 minutes, 40 secondsum the the broad so to answer your question in in a better way because we’re already there unfortunately
1:39:481 hour, 39 minutes, 48 secondsum the way to understand insulin resistance on a personal level in terms of measurements
1:39:561 hour, 39 minutes, 56 secondsbody measurements is something called metabolic health and there are five components which are very easy to measure of metabolic health okay um it’s your waist circumference
Chapter 29: How much is the average American increasing their risk of getting heart disease?
1:40:041 hour, 40 minutes, 4 secondsright it’s your blood triglycerides which is a form of the cholesterol being above 1.7 mill moles. Okay. Um, it’s
1:40:121 hour, 40 minutes, 12 secondsyour HDL cholesterol, the good cholesterol being less than 1 mill.
1:40:161 hour, 40 minutes, 16 secondsIt’s being pre-diabetic. Okay. Having a HBA1C of more than 5.7%.
1:40:231 hour, 40 minutes, 23 secondsUm, or being prehypertensive, so your blood pressure is above 120 over 80 average. If you have um three of those
1:40:321 hour, 40 minutes, 32 secondsthat are abnormal, you have something called metabolic syndrome. puts you at the highest risk of heart disease and at least 50% if not more patients admitted with heart attacks will have metabolic
1:40:401 hour, 40 minutes, 40 secondssyndrome. But all those five parameters being in the normal range in America
1:40:471 hour, 40 minutes, 47 secondsonly one in eight adults have all of those in the normal range and only one in four people aged between 20 and 40.
1:40:551 hour, 40 minutes, 55 secondsThink about that for a second.
1:40:571 hour, 40 minutes, 57 secondsSo seven out of eight yes adults will have abnormal metabolic health. If we
1:41:031 hour, 41 minutes, 3 secondswithin a year, if we just shifted a little bit people’s eating habits and let’s say we eliminated ultrarocessed
1:41:101 hour, 41 minutes, 10 secondsfood, we got people to eat more nuts and seeds, oily fish, you know, whole fruit and vegetables, it’s been estimated that
1:41:181 hour, 41 minutes, 18 secondsyou would half the death rates from heart disease within globally within one year from 20 million to 10 million.
1:41:241 hour, 41 minutes, 24 secondsYou’d be out of business as a heart doctor. Um,
1:41:311 hour, 41 minutes, 31 secondsthere’s still be a lot of people to treat. We got to help the other 10 million as well, right? But but I think the other thing as well is um what it does Steve though is it shifts the age.
1:41:401 hour, 41 minutes, 40 secondsSo instead of someone having saying a dying prematurely having a heart attack at the age of say 65, you know, they’ll live to 85. So all we’ll be doing as
1:41:491 hour, 41 minutes, 49 secondsdoctors is we’ll be managing older people. But that’s fine. You know, we’ve improved longevity, improved quality of life as well. You refer to stress as a silent killer.
1:41:571 hour, 41 minutes, 57 secondsIt’s something we’re not addressing, I think, as a society. So, to give put it in perspective, when you look at risk factor for heart disease, risk factors for heart disease, um the major ones are
1:42:061 hour, 42 minutes, 6 secondssmoking, type two diabetes, high blood pressure. The risk of heart disease linked to stress, chronic stress of more
1:42:141 hour, 42 minutes, 14 secondsthan a moderate degree is actually the same as being a smoker or having high blood pressure or having type two diabetes. And most people, I think, are
1:42:211 hour, 42 minutes, 21 secondsnot managing it. And certainly of all the patients I see, all the heart patients I see, invariably all of them
1:42:291 hour, 42 minutes, 29 secondshave had over the preceding years before their heart attack stress stress levels that are quite high. What’s the mechanism?
1:42:371 hour, 42 minutes, 37 secondsSo from an evolutionary perspective,
1:42:431 hour, 42 minutes, 43 secondsif we were acute stress can be a lifesaver, right? If we were running away from a saber-tooth tiger, right?
1:42:501 hour, 42 minutes, 50 secondsThen what happens is the body produces clotting factors and inflammatory markers uh factors in the blood that if
1:42:581 hour, 42 minutes, 58 secondswe were attacked they help reduce the risk of us bleeding to death. So imagine now imagine that happening chronic stress. You’ve got a lowgrade what we
1:43:051 hour, 43 minutes, 5 secondscall chronic inflammation and clotic factors increase. And that’s been shown actually in proven in um a study that was published in the Lancet a few years
1:43:121 hour, 43 minutes, 12 secondsago where they did an MRI of the brain of of young healthy people, adults, and
1:43:191 hour, 43 minutes, 19 secondsthey followed them up but they looked at the their subjective stress score. They did like um questionnaires to measure
1:43:271 hour, 43 minutes, 27 secondstheir stress levels subjectively. They correlated that with looking at the amygdala in the brain which is the emotional center and then they looked at
1:43:351 hour, 43 minutes, 35 secondsclotting factors and they even looked at heart attacks further down the line and there was a perfect correlation with the subjective stress score the amydala
Chapter 30: Stress is a silent killer
1:43:421 hour, 43 minutes, 42 secondslighting up the clotting factors in the blood the inflammatory markers in the blood and heart attack. So we we’ve got the plausible mechanism. So if that’s the case Steve there must be a way of
1:43:511 hour, 43 minutes, 51 secondscurbing it and well how does one do that? Well, the two most important causes of stress in society are work and relationship stress. So, those are things people can potentially work on,
1:44:011 hour, 44 minutes, 1 secondright? Potentially, but it’s just be aware of it. But one of the interventions that I use with my patients um is actually breath work and meditation.
1:44:101 hour, 44 minutes, 10 secondsAnd one of the most extraordinary bits of research that I came across and it’s in our documentary as well because we go into a bit more detail on
1:44:171 hour, 44 minutes, 17 secondsit. I had to go and see it for myself to believe it actually properly believe it.
1:44:211 hour, 44 minutes, 21 secondsum a cardiologist in India for more than 20 years has been um through a lifestyle
1:44:281 hour, 44 minutes, 28 secondsapproach has been reversing heart disease. So he did a study called the Mount Abu that is a place in northern India uh where he’s got a huge community
1:44:361 hour, 44 minutes, 36 secondsin a hospital people come to see him there and um he puts him through this lifestyle plan which in this study was that you know they’re devout Hindus so
1:44:441 hour, 44 minutes, 44 secondsit was a high fiber vegetarian diet it was two 30-minute brisk walks a day okay and something called Raj yoga meditation for 40 minutes
1:44:531 hour, 44 minutes, 53 secondswhich is a form of breath work but it’s also a bit of a spiritual transformation as well it’s about understanding where your anger comes from and all that kind
1:45:001 hour, 45 minutesof So it goes quite deep. And anyway, he followed these people up who were diagnosed with at least 50 to 70%
1:45:071 hour, 45 minutes, 7 secondsblockages in their arteries. They had heart disease. For some reason, they didn’t want to have a um a bypass operation or a stent or they couldn’t
1:45:151 hour, 45 minutes, 15 secondsafford it and they wanted this lifestyle plan. So he put them on a lifestyle plan. He repeated their angagrams after 2 years, right? He looked at the arteries again and on the people that
1:45:241 hour, 45 minutes, 24 secondshad adeared to the plan, there was an average reduction of the blockage of 20%.
1:45:291 hour, 45 minutes, 29 seconds70% became 50, 50 became 30. This is unheard of. If you ask any cardiologist, can heart disease reverse saying, “No,
1:45:351 hour, 45 minutes, 35 secondsI’ve never even seen it. It’s not possible, right?” But he showed this to be the case. He then looked at his data a bit in a bit more detail and said, “Was it the diet? Was it the exercise,
1:45:441 hour, 45 minutes, 44 secondsthe two or was it the stress reduction?”
1:45:461 hour, 45 minutes, 46 secondsThe only of course they’re all important, but the only independent factor for the reversal of the blockages was 40 minutes of Raj Yoga meditation per day.
1:45:571 hour, 45 minutes, 57 secondsNow I asked him, you know, he published this data in what we call a um an observational study. It wasn’t what we call a randomized trial where it was just more rigorously done. And he said,
1:46:071 hour, 46 minutes, 7 seconds”Why have you not done the randomized trial?” Said, “I have years ago.” And he showed me the data. And I was like,
1:46:121 hour, 46 minutes, 12 seconds”Wow, why didn’t you publish this anywhere? I couldn’t get it published.”
1:46:161 hour, 46 minutes, 16 secondsHe invited and I could be wrong about it. It was a it was senior it was a senior cardiology society. can’t
1:46:241 hour, 46 minutes, 24 secondsremember if the American Heart Association but it was a scenist cardio society in America to um he invited them to India so he could present his data he presented his
1:46:331 hour, 46 minutes, 33 secondsdata to them and they basically thought it was fascinating but in between the lines they said to him you know we can’t
1:46:411 hour, 46 minutes, 41 secondspublish this because it will affect our stent business and what’s a stent business stent is basically the heart stance like
1:46:481 hour, 46 minutes, 48 secondsas in it would you know I remember Steve when I first um wrote an article the first sort mainstream media article I wrote with in 2011
1:46:571 hour, 46 minutes, 57 secondswas me it was in the Observer newspaper I’d met Jamie Oliver having written to him saying can you sort hustle food out and then I end up writing an article
1:47:041 hour, 47 minutes, 4 secondscalled I mend hearts then I see our hospitals serve junk food to my patients uh basically saying listen we’re going to tackle this obesity epidemic tackle
1:47:121 hour, 47 minutes, 12 secondsheart disease we need to sort the diet out and I remember one of the cardiologists um who I knew a senior cardiologist I was still a junior doctor
1:47:201 hour, 47 minutes, 20 secondsat this point kind of tongue and cheek but many truths spoken in just said it seem this is going to affect our our business our stent business as in
1:47:281 hour, 47 minutes, 28 secondsoperating on people as if it was a bad thing that I was saying that we should basically prevent heart disease right there’s a cultural problem here Steve honestly I’m not this is this is a this
1:47:361 hour, 47 minutes, 36 secondsis a um a dirty secret if you like within medicine unfortunately amongst establishment figures is that they have
1:47:441 hour, 47 minutes, 44 secondsbecome so wedded and so close to these tyrannical corporations or their own self-interest that you know we’re
1:47:521 hour, 47 minutes, 52 secondsmissing a big trick here in terms of what we can really do for patients.
1:47:561 hour, 47 minutes, 56 secondsIn part, your other book here that I have, I still can’t pronounce this word.
1:48:011 hour, 48 minutes, 1 secondPop popy diet. Pop.
1:48:031 hour, 48 minutes, 3 secondsYour popy diet, I guess, serves to address many of these issues and to make sure that our heart hearts stay healthy.
1:48:091 hour, 48 minutes, 9 secondsWhat I wanted you to do for me is if I’m endeavoring to have a a good heart health until I die, which I guess is
1:48:161 hour, 48 minutes, 16 secondskind of impossible, but maybe I’ll get hit by a truck or something. Um, if I’m endeavoring to have good heart health,
1:48:211 hour, 48 minutes, 21 secondswhat should my daily rout in an optimal situation? What should my daily routine look like if I follow the diet that you came up with, but also
1:48:301 hour, 48 minutes, 30 secondsif I’m thinking through all of the potential things that can cause bad health? Sleep. I wake up. So, I sleep for seven hours.
1:48:361 hour, 48 minutes, 36 secondsSo, at least 7 hours sleep. Great. Tick. Okay. Um, eating real food.
1:48:421 hour, 48 minutes, 42 secondsOkay. So, breakfast is how many how many meals a day should I have? Well, two to three, whatever suits you. When you feel hungry, eat till you’re full.
1:48:501 hour, 48 minutes, 50 secondsNot seven, eight, nine, not no just eat, you know, and also I suppose if you’re doing activity, then you may, but the most important thing is to avoid the ultrarocessed food and not to have too much starch.
Chapter 31: What should my daily routine be for a healthy heart?
1:48:591 hour, 48 minutes, 59 secondsWhat about fasting? Um, controversial area, mixed data. Um,
1:49:061 hour, 49 minutes, 6 secondsI think that in terms of, you know, I have patients who feel benefit from fasting and other people feel more stressed. It depends where you are in
1:49:141 hour, 49 minutes, 14 secondsyour life. If for example you’re very active and your sleep isn’t good actually fasting can make your stress levels worse which is not good. It causes cortisol to increase and there is
1:49:231 hour, 49 minutes, 23 secondssome data showing that happens. So it depends where you are but I’m not averse to fasting. It depends you know see how people feel.
1:49:291 hour, 49 minutes, 29 secondsOkay. So I’ve woken up. I’ve had seven hours of sleep. I’ve eaten breakfast which was whole foods. So yeah and and Okay. So I would say you
1:49:361 hour, 49 minutes, 36 secondsknow whole fruit and vegetables ideally um a mixture of of low sugar fruits if you can ideally you know berries mixed berries for example
1:49:441 hour, 49 minutes, 44 secondsif you can get at least five to seven portions in that’s great um the the foods that are thought so the the anti-inflammatory foods that have
Chapter 32: Fasting for optimising our health
1:49:531 hour, 49 minutes, 53 secondsgot a reasonable body of evidence behind them are things like extravirgin olive oil is your base fat okay nuts and seeds
1:50:001 hour, 50 minutestree nuts almonds walnuts um hazelnuts for example oily fish at least a couple of times a week,
1:50:081 hour, 50 minutes, 8 secondsright? And then I would say minimizing, you know, the starch and the sugar, okay?
1:50:141 hour, 50 minutes, 14 secondsAnd the rest of it doesn’t matter. You can have, you know, I have heart patients ask me whether they can eat a steak. I say absolutely it’s not going to cause, you know, it’s very nutritious. If you want to have a steak two or three times a week, no issue.
1:50:221 hour, 50 minutes, 22 secondsSaturated fat in the diet isn’t a problem. I busted that myth. So butter,
1:50:261 hour, 50 minutes, 26 secondscheese, for example, um red meat is not going to have any adverse effect on your heart.
1:50:321 hour, 50 minutes, 32 secondsOkay. So I’ve eaten my breakfast. You want to enjoy your food as well, right?
1:50:351 hour, 50 minutes, 35 secondsYeah. So, that’s my sleep taking care of my meals that day taken care of.
1:50:391 hour, 50 minutes, 39 secondsWhat else do I need to be thinking about to optimize heart health?
1:50:421 hour, 50 minutes, 42 secondsWell, I suppose you got to think about what level it’s very subjective. You know, if you’re stressed and if you’re stressed, then you need to think about what can you do about it.
1:50:511 hour, 50 minutes, 51 secondsAnd there are different things. Some people find exercise um is good. Some people do yoga, they do pilatees, some people do breath work. So, try and find
1:51:001 hour, 51 minutesI have an app called Calm which I listen to. I I do at least 20 to 30 sometimes 40 minutes of breath work every morning when I wake up. It’s the first thing I do. Actually,
1:51:091 hour, 51 minutes, 9 secondsI’m going to do both. I’m going to do breath work and I’m going to go for a long workout.
1:51:141 hour, 51 minutes, 14 secondsCould is there such such a thing as too much exercise?
1:51:171 hour, 51 minutes, 17 secondsYeah. Unfortunately, yes. About 11% of elite athletes by the time they reach 50 will have scans that show very severe blockages or a heart disease, right? Um,
1:51:301 hour, 51 minutes, 30 secondsand I think Steve, to be honest, it might be genetic predisposition, but I think a lot of those people, cuz I have some of these people coming to me who don’t know why they’ve got diagnosed with heart disease. And I remember one
1:51:381 hour, 51 minutes, 38 secondslady I saw a few months ago, and she was running something like something crazy like 5 to 10 miles a day, but on only 4 hours sleep, and she
1:51:481 hour, 51 minutes, 48 secondswas young and otherwise didn’t have a diabetes or anything else, but had heart disease, had developed heart disease.
1:51:511 hour, 51 minutes, 51 secondsAnd I said, “This is probably because of this.” So uh I think that when you look at heart disease and optimal levels of exercise, it is actually the one thing I
1:52:001 hour, 52 minutesthink the guidelines are right about is probably that 150 minutes of moderate activity a week. So you know I again I I follow my own advice and I [snorts] will
Chapter 33: Is there such a thing as too much exercise?
1:52:091 hour, 52 minutes, 9 secondsum you know I I used to run but you know running can be quite damaging to the knees especially as you get older. So I I cycle and do exercise bike and whatever else and I will get my heart
1:52:181 hour, 52 minutes, 18 secondsrate to about 115 beats a minute for 30 minutes you know five times a week. One study found that marathon runners experience a frequency of heart attacks
1:52:251 hour, 52 minutes, 25 secondsand strokes similar to people who already have heart disease suggesting too much exercise is harmful which is in your book statinfree. And um another
1:52:351 hour, 52 minutes, 35 secondsstat here is athletes who do more than one hour of intense exercise per day,
1:52:391 hour, 52 minutes, 39 secondsfour times um have four times the frequency of breathing infections per year compared to those who do moderate activity.
1:52:451 hour, 52 minutes, 45 secondsWell, that’s the other thing about overex exercising. Well, it depresses the immune system. That’s well known. Uh and in fact if you look at and a lot of people do it for different reasons but if you look at the the communities
1:52:531 hour, 52 minutes, 53 secondsaround the world known as the blue zones Steve you know where people have high longevity. These people weren’t pounding it in the gym. They’re just outside you know they were gardening they were
1:53:001 hour, 53 minutesmoving. You don’t need to be doing all of that kind of stuff. People do it for different reasons. I mean I I do it sometime. Oh also for mental health it’s good. You um didn’t you publish an article?
1:53:091 hour, 53 minutes, 9 secondsYou co-authored an article for the British Journal of Sports and Medicine called It’s Time to Bust the Myth of Physical Activity. Yeah. Physical inactivity and obesity.
1:53:181 hour, 53 minutes, 18 secondsYou can’t outrun a bad diet. That was the title of the article. And the point was, and we make it very clear at the beginning, that exercise has many benefits for health, but weight loss is
1:53:271 hour, 53 minutes, 27 secondsnot one of them. Because most of what determines your weight gain, almost all of it is to do with with what you eat. And that discussion or that thinking,
1:53:351 hour, 53 minutes, 35 secondswhether it was about burning calories actually came from the food industry. They they they they manufactured that.
1:53:401 hour, 53 minutes, 40 secondsUm Coca-Cola, McDonald’s, they would push this. They even the Olympic Games 2012, they were the main sponsors,
1:53:461 hour, 53 minutes, 46 secondsright? because for them they want to distract from their unhealthy products and say well the obesity epidemic is being driven by people not you know not exercising.
1:53:541 hour, 53 minutes, 54 secondsSo on that day on this perfect day that I’m creating in my mind I’m eating well I’ve moved but not too much. I’m doing breath work in the morning. I’ve slept 7
Chapter 34: Exercise doesn’t help with weight loss
1:54:031 hour, 54 minutes, 3 secondshours a day and the last thing that from looking at your 21-day immunity plan is socializing.
1:54:101 hour, 54 minutes, 10 secondsYeah. So so important. I think one of the most important aspects for mental health, physical health is the quality of our relationships, friends, family.
1:54:191 hour, 54 minutes, 19 secondsUm people may laugh at this, but I actually I actually prescribe hugging to a lot of my patients. Uh especially couples, you know. Um there is
1:54:271 hour, 54 minutes, 27 secondsdefinitely some benefits from that, you know, uh and uh in terms of reducing cortisol levels, etc. I think that’s an an issue in society in general. You know
1:54:361 hour, 54 minutes, 36 secondswe become we have been conditioned in a way to think that we can just be dependent on ourselves as individuals and we don’t need other people but
1:54:441 hour, 54 minutes, 44 secondsactually we do this is that’s how we evolved partly because it helps us it helps us feel safe hugging I think it just it just yeah there is it
Chapter 35: The importance of socialising on our health
1:54:541 hour, 54 minutes, 54 secondsactivates parts of the brain the protection soothing mechanisms of the brain and I think that is just an extra element of it absolutely
1:55:021 hour, 55 minutes, 2 secondsand they it reduces cortisol and all those things so it’s going to stave heart attacks. If we hug, we have less chance of having a heart attack.
1:55:091 hour, 55 minutes, 9 secondsIt’s not not just about that. I think it’s also good for the immune system. So the the people that did the original cold studies on on cold viruses, this was done, I think, in early 2000s.
1:55:181 hour, 55 minutes, 18 secondsFascinating study. They inoculated people with a cold virus. So they put the the traditional cold virus whatever into into people’s, you know, nasal
1:55:261 hour, 55 minutes, 26 secondspassages and they looked at who developed symptoms of a cold and who didn’t. And they looked and and before they did that, they did these questionnaires based upon several
1:55:351 hour, 55 minutes, 35 secondsdifferent aspects of people’s social life. Are they involved in community activities? How often do they meet their friends? What’s it like with their
Chapter 36: Why you need to start hugging more
1:55:421 hour, 55 minutes, 42 secondspartner? Etc., etc. And the people who had the highest scores, only one in three of those people developed a cold.
1:55:491 hour, 55 minutes, 49 secondsAnd the people on the other side that were more maybe more lonely and weren’t interacting with other people who didn’t have good quality relationships, two out
1:55:561 hour, 55 minutes, 56 secondsof three of those people developed colds. So, it’s not just about heart disease, it’s about the immune system as well.
1:56:021 hour, 56 minutes, 2 secondsOverall health makes you think, doesn’t it, if loneliness really is killing us. Yeah. Um,
1:56:061 hour, 56 minutes, 6 secondswe need to try and do more to end the epidemic that is loneliness cuz the stats seem to suggest it’s going one way and it’s not a good way.
1:56:131 hour, 56 minutes, 13 secondsUm, and part of that issue as well,
1:56:151 hour, 56 minutes, 15 secondsSteve, which is a something we need to think about with what’s going on society [snorts] is I do we’ve got a worsening mental health crisis. We’ve got less
1:56:231 hour, 56 minutes, 23 secondstrust in government. One of the ways societies progress is people being able to trust each other by people not being
1:56:311 hour, 56 minutes, 31 secondsafraid to speak the truth. And more than ever, and certainly I’ve seen it in medicine, we have got to a situation and the COVID vaccine is a microcosm of
1:56:401 hour, 56 minutes, 40 secondssomething much bigger where people are afraid to speak the truth. And that gives us an element of uncertainty, distrust, and it makes us more stressed.
1:56:491 hour, 56 minutes, 49 secondsSo what this means, what it comes back to is ultimately part of the solution to the mental, physical, social well-being
1:56:561 hour, 56 minutes, 56 secondscrisis, heart disease is thinking about acting from a place of virtue and ethics, right? Thinking about, you know,
1:57:051 hour, 57 minutes, 5 secondsyour intentions, being honest, not manipulating other people for money.
1:57:081 hour, 57 minutes, 8 secondsThis is unfortunately where the the the capitalist system or the current economic system has taken us and the corporatization of human beings as a result. And that is very detrimental to our physical and mental health.
1:57:191 hour, 57 minutes, 19 secondsWhat was your father’s name? Kash. Kash. Son, never change your loyalties.
1:57:321 hour, 57 minutes, 32 secondsYeah, loyalty was very important to him.
1:57:341 hour, 57 minutes, 34 secondsYou know, those I was brought with those core values about um honesty, integrity,
1:57:391 hour, 57 minutes, 39 secondsbeing loyal to people, how to be a good human being, how to be the best version of yourself, Steve. Um, that’s what it’s
1:57:461 hour, 57 minutes, 46 secondsabout, you know, for your benefit and for the benefit of others.
1:57:501 hour, 57 minutes, 50 secondsHe said that to you when you were younger and you were considering switching football team. Um, he told you to never change your loyalties. And you
1:57:571 hour, 57 minutes, 57 secondsdes I’ve got the eulogy you wrote for your father when he passed away here.
1:58:021 hour, 58 minutes, 2 secondsAnd it’s interesting some of the the words and phrases that you used in the eulogy to him because they seem to be quite pertinent to our conversation today. The ultimate purpose of knowledge
Chapter 37: What do you think your dad would be thinking?
1:58:091 hour, 58 minutes, 9 secondsis to reduce human suffering. And that true wisdom to achieve that end only comes from dialogue.
1:58:171 hour, 58 minutes, 17 secondsYeah, that was uh that was a Socratic Socrates quote. True wisdom comes only from dialogue. Um,
1:58:251 hour, 58 minutes, 25 secondsunderstanding others starts from understanding oneself. And to get to a greater truth, one has to be able to
1:58:321 hour, 58 minutes, 32 secondsquestion one’s own beliefs. And to get there, to achieve that, you have to engage uh with other people and have
1:58:401 hour, 58 minutes, 40 secondsdiscussions. but from a place of compassion where you are open to listening to other people because we can only get to a greater truth if you listen to all different sides on a
1:58:491 hour, 58 minutes, 49 secondsparticular issue and that comes from having that conversation. So I think that’s a huge component of it all which I think we’re losing Steven society there’s so much polarization you know.
1:58:581 hour, 58 minutes, 58 secondsYeah, and that’s yeah, I completely agree and you know it’s it’s difficult obviously because um conversation can be
1:59:051 hour, 59 minutes, 5 secondsfatal. It can be um especially medical conversation conversation about things like vaccines or health information. So
1:59:131 hour, 59 minutes, 13 secondsit’s very delicate information but um the what can also be fatal is the lack of conversation i.e. not seeing ideas
1:59:201 hour, 59 minutes, 20 secondscollide. And it’s it’s interesting as someone who speaks to a lot of health professionals on this podcast, I’m not an expert in health and people will often criticize me for that and say, you
1:59:291 hour, 59 minutes, 29 secondsknow, um this they said this thing wrong or this thing wrong. But I think the place that I’ve got to now is to present every opinion that I can. Yeah.
1:59:371 hour, 59 minutes, 37 secondsAnd hopefully to will people to be able to make up their own minds. And I hope I tried to uh present some of the other
1:59:441 hour, 59 minutes, 44 secondsside of um the at least the rebuttals so people can can be curious and we don’t we’re not pushing in any particular direction. I have no bloody dog in the
Chapter 38: The power of conversation
1:59:521 hour, 59 minutes, 52 secondsfight. I don’t you know and I’m not I want to have that conversation, Steve. I think part of the problem with all of this is that that conversation isn’t even happening. We want to have that conversation. We want rebuttals. We want a count of view.
2:00:012 hours, 1 secondYeah.
2:00:022 hours, 2 secondsBut the ignoring of even the conversation that for me is is is unforgivable.
2:00:072 hours, 7 secondsIt’s a shame. I think podcasts are doing a good job of kind of well I think a lot of them are doing a good job of just having that conversation. Yeah.
2:00:132 hours, 13 secondsUm because it’s long form and there’s I mean there’s a there’s a comment section so people are going to discuss below and there’s you know there’s lots of podcast
2:00:212 hours, 21 secondsthere’s lots of information being thrown out into the world and um everything we’ve talked about today will be linked below as much of the the links as we
2:00:292 hours, 29 secondscan. So, if anybody is curious about anything we’ve discussed or any stats, you’ll send me your stuff. Absolutely.
2:00:342 hours, 34 secondsAnd I’ll link it below and I’ll I’ll link the NHS and the British Heart Foundation and anyone else below so people can have a think about that. But
2:00:412 hours, 41 secondsI am a big fan of conversation and I’m a big fan of having both sides of an argument and trying to make my own mind up on things and find the nuance. I find
2:00:502 hours, 50 secondsthe truth is usually somewhere in the middle. Yeah.
2:00:522 hours, 52 secondsSo, I think it’s important because, you know, one of the things I think we have to we have to reflect on is some of those amazing people you talked about like Martin Luther King and I don’t know
2:01:002 hours, 1 minutewhether it’s the suffragettes or Gandhi or whoever it might be, their ideas in their time were received equally
2:01:062 hours, 1 minute, 6 secondshorrifically and um now those are things that we all consider to be true and very important as it relates to maybe science or just social issues on equality. So
2:01:162 hours, 1 minute, 16 secondswith that in mind, we have to also be humble to the fact that idea that might be important might at first offend us.
2:01:232 hours, 1 minute, 23 secondsIt might trigger us. It might be counter to the public narrative or or to the current available science. But I don’t think it should be censored.
2:01:322 hours, 1 minute, 32 secondsNo. And I I would say that people listening to this just think about one thing. One of the reasons that we seek
2:01:402 hours, 1 minute, 40 secondsthe truth and greater truths is that a life lived in darkness has no meaning.
2:01:482 hours, 1 minute, 48 secondsAmen. We have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest not knowing who they’re going to be leaving
2:01:542 hours, 1 minute, 54 secondsit for. And the question left for you is of all the most amazing superstar people you have met in your life,
2:02:042 hours, 2 minutes, 4 secondswhat was the quality that made them superstars? And can it be taught?
2:02:112 hours, 2 minutes, 11 secondsA love for humanity.
2:02:142 hours, 2 minutes, 14 secondsThat was a quality that made them superstars in whatever they were doing.
2:02:182 hours, 2 minutes, 18 secondsIt was to give back to society in some way. Whether it was entertainment,
2:02:232 hours, 2 minutes, 23 secondswhether it was music, whether it was sport, but based upon a love for humanity.
2:02:342 hours, 2 minutes, 34 secondsStands up to be true. I just went through a list of superstars that I know of in my brain and I think that’s certainly the case. And it’s funny cuz the people that I think of as real superstars aren’t necessarily famous.
Chapter 39: The last guest question
2:02:412 hours, 2 minutes, 41 secondsThey’re not rich. They’re not anything like that. They’re just like the best people, the ones that I really aspire to be more like. But the one that made them stand out for me, the one quality that
2:02:502 hours, 2 minutes, 50 secondsmade them extra special in th those particular people um was despite them
2:02:562 hours, 2 minutes, 56 secondsbeing so excellent is they had a huge uh um a wonderful humility about them and they can find you everywhere,
2:03:092 hours, 3 minutes, 9 secondsespecially on Twitter. Got a big Twitter following. Um and your books as well. I will link your books below in the description for anybody that wants to read them. I’ve
2:03:172 hours, 3 minutes, 17 secondsthese two books in particular, the one that I can’t pronounce, the Pop Pop diet, a 21-day lifestyle plan. Lose weight,
2:03:262 hours, 3 minutes, 26 secondsfeel great, and drastically reduce your risk of type two diabetes and heart disease, and a statin-free life, a revolutionary life plan for tackling heart disease without the use of statins are two that I’d certainly really,
2:03:352 hours, 3 minutes, 35 secondsreally recommend. Thank you, Dr. Thank you for the work you do, the way that you do your work, and thank you for having the courage to be a [snorts] loud
2:03:452 hours, 3 minutes, 45 secondscounteracting voice in society where we do need counteracting voices. I don’t think anybody can ever argue with that.
2:03:502 hours, 3 minutes, 50 secondsAnd the way in which you do it and your intentions of doing it, I think are wonderful. Um, and I think they’re a real credit to the two wonderful people
2:03:582 hours, 3 minutes, 58 secondsthat raised you. So, thank you for your time today. Thank you for doing the work that you do. I’m going to continue following it. I follow you on Twitter and I’ve been following you for many,
2:04:042 hours, 4 minutes, 4 secondsmany years, I think, I believe. Um, and I very much enjoy consuming your information because I know that you don’t you have there’s a certain
2:04:122 hours, 4 minutes, 12 secondsfearlessness with you that is going to deliver what is true regardless of consequence. And that is a useful source
2:04:202 hours, 4 minutes, 20 secondsof information to have in my world where I’m I’m trying to advance my thinking and I care more about progress and truth than I do something feeling comfortable.
2:04:282 hours, 4 minutes, 28 secondsSo, I highly recommend everyone go check you out on Twitter as well. [music] Heat. Heat. N.
2:04:392 hours, 4 minutes, 39 seconds[music]
2:04:432 hours, 4 minutes, 43 secondsHeat. Heat. [music]
2:04:462 hours, 4 minutes, 46 seconds[singing]
2:04:502 hours, 4 minutes, 50 seconds[music]

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Chapter 1: Intro
0:00From everything I know now, I’ve reluctantly come to the conclusion that the COVID vaccine introduction has had a
0:077 secondscatastrophic net negative effect on society. And this is really most disturbing and I’ve not been public about this before, so I’m going to tell you this for the first time.
0:1515 secondsDr. Aim Malhatra is one of the UK’s leading celebrity heart doctors whose influential research has sparked important conversations about nutrition and exercise and the healthare system.
0:2525 secondsThe Times journalist called me and said, “We’ve got [music] reports now of a 25%
0:2929 secondsincrease in heart attacks in hospitals in Scotland which are unexplained. What do you think about the vaccine?” I was a bit surprised. I said, “What do you mean?” He said, “And to have that deep
0:3737 secondsknowledge and understanding gives me very deep pain.” And medical knowledge is under commercial control. This [music] is the root of the problem. The system is psychopathic when it comes to
0:4646 secondsmaking money. And there [music] is so much harm that comes from drug prescriptions. One credible estimate suggests the third most common cause of death globally after heart disease
0:5454 seconds[music] and cancer is prescribed medications. This is a dirty secret within medicine. We should shift our approach [music] to health from a
1:011 minute, 1 secondpredominantly drug-based model within healthcare to one which is more based upon lifestyle. So what is that? The first thing that needs to be done is by
1:101 minute, 10 seconds2030 it’s estimated that about 23.3 million people will die yearly because of heart disease globally and there are 200 million people taking statins
1:171 minute, 17 seconds[music] around the world. But the increase in life expectancy with statins over a 5year period, 4.2 days.
1:241 minute, 24 secondsHow do I prevent myself ending up on either statins or having a heart attack? This is really important information. So,
1:341 minute, 34 secondsquick one before we get back to this episode. Just give me 30 seconds of your time. Two things I wanted to say. The first thing is a huge thank you for listening and tuning into the show week
1:431 minute, 43 secondsafter week. It means the world to all of us and this really is a dream that we absolutely never had and couldn’t have imagined getting to this place. But secondly, it’s a dream where we feel like we’re only just getting started.
1:531 minute, 53 secondsAnd if you enjoy what we do here, please join the 24% of people who watch this channel regularly and have hit the subscribe button. Means more than I can
2:022 minutes, 2 secondssay. And if you hit that subscribe button, here’s a promise I’m going to make to you. I’m going to do everything in my power to make this show as good as
2:092 minutes, 9 secondsI can now and into the future. We’re going to deliver the guests that you want me to speak to and we’re going to continue to keep doing all of the things you love about this show. Thank you.
2:192 minutes, 19 secondsThank you so much. Back to the episode.
2:222 minutes, 22 seconds[music]
2:242 minutes, 24 secondsDr. Aim,
2:262 minutes, 26 secondsyou’re working on a documentary called First Do No Farm, which will be out shortly. Why did you choose the name for your documentary, First Do No Farm?
2:362 minutes, 36 secondsWell, first and foremost, the credit to that name actually goes to my co-producer, Donal O’Neal, who’s made a number of health documentaries. Um, and he’s a former international athlete. Uh,
2:462 minutes, 46 secondsyou know, and he used to work in marketing and PR, so he’s very good with with slogans and sound bites. Um but it it it totally resonated with with my
2:542 minutes, 54 secondswork and what I’ve been doing probably for well over a decade which is to try and shift um our approach to health from
3:013 minutes, 1 seconda predominantly pharmacologicalbased drug-based model within healthcare to one which is more based upon lifestyle.
Chapter 2: The title for your book, why?
3:103 minutes, 10 secondsAnd that’s because that’s where the best evidence is in terms of improving our health but also in terms of managing the
3:183 minutes, 18 secondshealth care system where there is so much waste where drugs are overprescribed and obviously first do noarm means in the consultation room the
3:273 minutes, 27 secondsideal scenario should be with every patient that if there is a uh non-drug-based way non-farmacological
3:363 minutes, 36 secondsway of managing their illness chronic disease which is the big problem in society right now on healthare systems.
3:423 minutes, 42 secondsUh that should be the primary primary approach. Um as well as highlighting through the title that there is so much harm that comes from drug prescriptions.
3:523 minutes, 52 secondsJust I mean this is something that even brings gasps from audiences when I give talks and lectures all around the world.
3:593 minutes, 59 secondsAnd whenever even I say it, I even think bloody hell, how have we got to this situation? That, you know, one credible estimate suggests the third most common
4:074 minutes, 7 secondscause of death globally after heart disease and cancer is prescribed medications. What your doctor prescribes for you so-called appropriately.
4:164 minutes, 16 secondsmainly because the information which doctors use to make decisions for patients when it’s prescribing drugs
4:244 minutes, 24 secondsinvariably is based upon a gross exaggeration on the safety and the benefits of those drugs
4:334 minutes, 33 secondsand the phrase first do no harm which is the original phrase that you’ve spanned for the title where does that phrase originate from well actually it’s one of the basic
4:414 minutes, 41 secondsprinciples of medical ethics you know as doctors that’s the something that’s almost we indoctr ated or ingrained with whenever we you know practice medicine
4:504 minutes, 50 secondstreat patients um that should be the that’s at the forefront of our minds. It should be at the forefront of our minds.
4:554 minutes, 55 secondsWhat what professionally what is your professional title? Um I’m a consultant cardiologist.
5:025 minutes, 2 secondsWhat does that mean if I So I uh I special so I qualified as a doctor um medical doctor in 2001. Um and
5:095 minutes, 9 secondsthen after um becoming a um I I decided after two or three years of doing my sort of initial post-graduate basic
5:175 minutes, 17 secondstraining in medicine to subsp specialcialize in cardiology which is basically everything to do with the heart and then within that subsp specialcialization of cardiology or
5:265 minutes, 26 secondsspecialization of cardiology I trained in interventional cardiology. Um in layman’s term Steve that means keyhole
5:355 minutes, 35 secondsheart surgery. So that’s what I trained to do.
5:375 minutes, 37 seconds[clears throat]
5:385 minutes, 38 secondsUm and I did that um uh you know up until probably 2014 2015 and then I shifted more towards a more holistic
Chapter 3: Your professional title
5:465 minutes, 46 secondsapproach to managing heart disease especially looking at the science and practicing the evidence base behind how
5:545 minutes, 54 secondslifestyle changes can manage heart disease and even potentially reverse it.
5:585 minutes, 58 secondsYou must have seen a lot of hearts in your time.
6:006 minutesYes. I I I think in terms of I was thinking about this because you know up until 2019 I was you know an NHS doctor.
6:086 minutes, 8 secondsWe’ll come back to later why what happened in 2019 but and that’s my passion. Um but within the NHS which I
6:156 minutes, 15 secondsthink trains doctors brilliantly um it’s a very high intense workload. Um and uh
6:236 minutes, 23 secondsjust to give you perspective on that um you know we have the highest uh capita population per doctors in Europe. So
6:326 minutes, 32 secondsleast number of doctors per uh population in the country um and the most number of doctors on night shift.
6:386 minutes, 38 secondsSo it’s quite intense and because of that I was thinking back in terms of the patients I would see on the wards and the throughput and the people that I
6:456 minutes, 45 secondswould see you know in the what we call cardiac catheter lab where we did the diagnostic angagrams to visualize the heart arteries and we put stances in
6:536 minutes, 53 secondsetc. Over my career I’ve probably managed tens of thousands of patients.
6:586 minutes, 58 secondsWhy did you choose to specialize in the heart versus other parts of the sort of medical um ecosystem that you could have pursued? What was there something?
7:097 minutes, 9 secondsYeah, I don’t know if there’s one answer to that. I think one trigger very early on in my life is um you know I grew up
7:167 minutes, 16 secondsin a medical family. Both my parents were GPS and I had an older brother who had Down syndrome and uh which also meant he had a small
7:247 minutes, 24 secondshole in his heart as well. And when I was 11 and he was 13, shortly after his
7:307 minutes, 30 secondsbirthday um he got a tummy bug. Uh standard tummy bug. We didn’t think anything of it. Within 6 days, Steve um
7:387 minutes, 38 secondshe became breathless and rapidly deteriorated. Got admitted to hospital and had a cardiac arrest and died. And later on it emerged his you know the
Chapter 4: Why did you decide to specialise in the heart?
7:477 minutes, 47 secondspostmortem showed his heart was massively enlarged and essentially had something called viral myocarditis. It can happen actually to anybody. You get
7:547 minutes, 54 secondsa a cold and in one in 10,000 people up to one in 100,000 people. The body then has what we call an autoimmune reaction.
8:038 minutes, 3 secondsinstead of dealing with a cold on its own, it then attacks the heart. And and in a third of those patients, you can basically who get that, they will
8:118 minutes, 11 secondsdeteriorate and they will die. And so I think for me that had such a profound impact on my life. Um and with both parents being doctors, of course, there
8:188 minutes, 18 secondswas a bit of there was no pressure from my parents. They wanted me to, you know, my dad wanted to be a cricketer. But,
8:238 minutes, 23 secondsum, I think that was implanted in my mind that if I was to go into medicine,
8:298 minutes, 29 secondsI wanted to get involved in managing and helping people, you know, or prevent heart disease. So, I think that’s where it started from. It’s interesting cuz when we think about our health,
8:408 minutes, 40 secondsa lot of people think about the amount of weight they have on them. They think,
8:438 minutes, 43 secondsyou know, abdominal fat. They think about how strong they are, their muscles and things like that. Then a lot of the other things are very superficial the sort of measures of our health because
8:528 minutes, 52 secondswe’ve never really seen our heart and it’s similar to our brain because we’ve never seen our heart or our brain we I think we typically devalue the role that
8:598 minutes, 59 secondsthey play in our over overall health but when I was reading some stats around heart disease and how how many people
9:079 minutes, 7 secondsdie from heart disease I was shocked so if we start there then can you give me a sort of macro picture on why it’s
9:159 minutes, 15 secondsimportant to keep our hearts healthy and how um how many people are are dying because of unhealthy hearts.
9:229 minutes, 22 secondsYeah. So globally um it’s estimated and it’s on the increase by uh that certainly by 2030
9:309 minutes, 30 secondsit’s estimated that about 23.3 million people will die um yearly because of heart disease globally right and that’s
9:399 minutes, 39 secondsa huge number and and just to put it in perspective it’s the one of the leading causes of premature death in European men it is the leading cause of premature
9:479 minutes, 47 secondsdeath and uh and that’s why I think it’s so important not just about people’s lives being cut short early. But also
9:549 minutes, 54 secondsthere is an associated morbidity which means the quality of life deterioration that happens with people who are diagnosed with heart disease that may not be able to exercise very much
Chapter 5: How many people are dying because of unhealthy hearts?
10:0310 minutes, 3 secondsbecause they get pain in their chest because of a blockage or they may develop what we call heart failure where the pump function of the heart is affected [snorts] because of blockages
10:1110 minutes, 11 secondsor because of a previous heart attack they survived and therefore they can’t actually do the activities they want to enjoy. And that’s you know way bigger in fact that’s well sorry just as important
10:2010 minutes, 20 secondsas as of course the the premature death rate. So, no, it’s a massive issue. And it’s interesting, Steve, that you you mentioned um the image side where people think about excess body fat and big
10:2810 minutes, 28 secondsmuscles and that kind of thing. And that also plays into a certain culture and mindset that I think detracts from us actually addressing the root cause of
10:3610 minutes, 36 secondsmany problems with society today in our health. Um which is not related to image actually. It’s about the the basics of of uh reducing stress, about our social interactions, etc.
10:4710 minutes, 47 secondsum to some degree obviously what we eat is linked to to how we look but um yeah I mean absolutely I think it’s not something people really think about
10:5510 minutes, 55 secondsenough um often until it’s too late. How does it impact women? Because we mentioned it being the single biggest killer of men, I think, in Europe, you said. What about women?
11:0511 minutes, 5 secondsIt’s um not as bad for women. And part of the reason for that, Steve, is and traditionally women on average will live live up to 10 years longer than men,
11:1611 minutes, 16 secondsright?
11:1611 minutes, 16 secondsAnd the reason for that is that women don’t tend to develop heart disease um at the same age as men. But after the
11:2311 minutes, 23 secondsmenopause, the rates of heart disease actually start to catch up. So even though women will live longer, it’s still a big issue with women as well.
11:3111 minutes, 31 secondsUm, absolutely.
11:3311 minutes, 33 secondsYour mother passed in November 2018 after a bout of sepsis.
11:3811 minutes, 38 secondsThe interesting I read this quote you’d said, I think it was on um on I news.
11:4411 minutes, 44 secondsYou said G you’re a GP that had dedicated 25 years of your life to the NHS and ultimately you failed by it.
Chapter 6: Why do women get fewer heart diseases?
11:5111 minutes, 51 secondsHow were you failed by it?
11:5711 minutes, 57 secondsIn my mom’s circumstance, what happened was, you know, the system was under so much strain. I mean, she had suffered
12:0512 minutes, 5 secondswith a a debilitating rheumatoid and osteoarthritis for many years.
12:0912 minutes, 9 secondsInitially, I think a lot of her health issues were rooted in her weight. I mean, she was addicted to all to processed food. She consumed a lot of
12:1712 minutes, 17 secondssugar. I grew up in a household where there were just cakes and biscuits everywhere. And, you know, she was a very loving mom. Um, but I was addicted to sugar probably because of that as
Chapter 7: The NHS failed you, how?
12:2612 minutes, 26 secondswell for some time. But it affected her health and I and and and I love my mom very very dearly and it was heartbreaking to watch her suffer slowly
12:3312 minutes, 33 secondsover a number of years. But the way she was failed by the NHS specifically is [snorts] that um I had already been campaigning for many many years in terms
12:4112 minutes, 41 secondsof seeing how the system of the NHS was being put under more pressure. a lot of it by diet related disease and there were so many opportunities for us to
12:5012 minutes, 50 secondsthat were being missed to actually improve the system so that doctors could provide quality care to every patient to a good degree. When my mom was admitted
12:5812 minutes, 58 secondsto hospital and she was sick with infection in her spine, she’d become so frail from her arthritis that her immune system probably wasn’t functioning
13:0513 minutes, 5 secondsproperly as well. because the hospital was under so much strain because we had not sorted out the root causes of the pressure on the system. They missed a
13:1213 minutes, 12 secondsheart attack for nine days. And it’s extraordinary, Steve. I remember I was a they knew I was a cardiologist and it was our local hospital. My dad was a
13:2113 minutes, 21 secondslocal GP and he was considered a medical leader. I mean, he was loved and liked and respected massively. So, even with all of that, [snorts] um they did everything they could to help her. But,
13:3113 minutes, 31 secondsum she she went she became breathless one day. They treated her for, you know,
13:3513 minutes, 35 secondsum, uh, you know, for infection with lots of fluid, etc. And, um, they carried out a heart scan. It was decided, let’s do a heart scan on her.
13:4413 minutes, 44 secondsBut nobody actually looked at the result of the heart scan and shared it with the team because they were so busy they just missed it. And I get sent the results 9
13:5413 minutes, 54 secondsdays later being asked, “What do you think?” And I immediately noticed that it was an echo. It was a heart scan looking at the pump muscle of the heart that part of the heart muscle wasn’t working well. I said, “She’s had it.
14:0414 minutes, 4 secondsYou’ve missed a it was a a relatively minor heart attack, but enough to cause her to go into what we call heart failure.” And within 24 hours, fluid in
14:1114 minutes, 11 secondsthe lung, intensive care, went into a coma, and that was it. So that was a was a failing of the NHS, but not because of
14:2114 minutes, 21 secondsthe principles of the NHS, but because the NHS um over the years, Steve, has
14:2714 minutes, 27 secondslost its um basic ability to care for patients because the principles of the NHS have not been upheld.
14:3614 minutes, 36 secondsFor anyone that isn’t aware, the NHS means National Health Service, which is the health service and system um within
14:4214 minutes, 42 secondsthe UK. the the I mean just a few years later your father passes in July 21 from
14:5014 minutes, 50 secondsa sudden unexplained heart attack at 73 years old. Um
14:5714 minutes, 57 secondsI mean so there’s three members of your family that have ultimately um died as a result of or closely linked to heart attacks. Your immediate family.
15:0915 minutes, 9 secondsYeah. Yeah. Um yeah to some degree. Yes.
15:1315 minutes, 13 secondsAll related to the heart. All related to the heart.
15:1815 minutes, 18 secondsWas your father’s heart attack avoidable in your view? If you think about the lifestyle choices and things like that that you you talked about your mother
15:2515 minutes, 25 secondsthere, was that avoidable any in any sense of the word?
15:2815 minutes, 28 secondsYeah. Interesting. Um so there are two components to my dad’s um death. Um strictly the the postmortem findings
15:3715 minutes, 37 secondsdidn’t reveal a heart attack per se, but for all intents and purposes it can be seen that way. So, um, the first thing that happened was, um, my dad, by the
15:4515 minutes, 45 secondsway, was a very fit man for his age, 73 years old. Um, played badson every week. Um, had a bit of high blood pressure,
15:5315 minutes, 53 secondsbut had got that better controlled after quitting sugar, partly because of all my campaigning. Uh, and he listened to me and he was very into eating healthy food. In fact, you know, I consider
16:0216 minutes, 2 secondsmyself to be extremely fit. I’m obsessed with exercise. Um, you know, I played a lot of competitive sport when I was younger, partly because of him. And uh
Chapter 8: How could these deaths have been avoided
16:1116 minutes, 11 secondsit was very unexpected when he called me up. It’s coming up to his anniversary, July 26, 2021.
16:1816 minutes, 18 secondsUh and he said, “I seem I’ve got some chest discomfort.” And uh I asked him, you know, to describe it. In medicine,
16:2516 minutes, 25 seconds80% of your diagnosis, if you’re a good doctor, comes from the conversation. So the way he described his chest discomfort was a central heaviness going to his shoulders. So immediately think
16:3316 minutes, 33 secondsthis is heart. And I said, “You need to call an ambulance.” He was a bit reluctant to call an ambulance for whatever reason. And then I said, “Okay, I was in London. He was in Manchester.
16:4116 minutes, 41 secondsThat’s where I grew up. And I decided to go and have a shower, get ready, and get on the train.” And he was ringing up his
16:4816 minutes, 48 secondsuh neighbors who were both doctors. And by the time I came out of the shower, I called him back and there was no answer.
16:5416 minutes, 54 secondsAnd I remember my heart just thinking, I really hope he’s not had a cardiac arrest. It just I thought, “No, this is this can’t be can’t be what’s going on.”
17:0017 minutesKept ringing ringing. And eventually um the neighbor who was a doctor who knew me, she answered the phone and said, “Seeam, your dad’s had a cardiac
17:0817 minutes, 8 secondsarrest. We’re doing CPR in him.” I know from national data and I’ve even written about this in the BMJ. The average response time, Steve, for for for many
17:1717 minutes, 17 secondsmany years, one of the things uh that we do have done very well in the NHS, some of the best in the world, is our treatment of heart attacks and the speed
17:2417 minutes, 24 secondsof treatment and even cardiac arrests. I knew the average response time was 8 minutes. I said, “The ambulance will be here in 8 minutes.” because of the timing almost certainly he will have
17:3217 minutes, 32 secondswhat we call a shockable rhythm as in um the heart is probably in in a having a electrical disturbance and we’ll be able to shock him out of it more than 50%
17:4217 minutes, 42 secondschance he will survive this is I’m thinking already like this 10 minutes pass by hasn’t shown 20
17:4917 minutes, 49 secondsminutes nothing 30 minutes um they get there and I FaceTime them they attach a cardiac monitor it’s a flatline he’s
17:5817 minutes, 58 secondsgone nothing to be done and of course that was, you know, at that stage I was obviously devastated and I I wrote in the eye newspaper about how I I screamed louder than ever screamed in my life.
18:0918 minutes, 9 secondsBut to come back to that situation first and foremost so the first thing is if the ambulance had turned up on time almost certainly it’s likely he would have survived. That’s the first thing.
18:1818 minutes, 18 secondsBut the second thing in my mind is why has he had a cardiac arrest in the first place? He was a really healthy guy in in my family as in on his side there was no
18:2618 minutes, 26 secondsfamily history of heart disease. He had high blood pressure. Okay. But that was about it, right? And he was otherwise pretty good.
18:3318 minutes, 33 secondsAnd when the postmortm came back, there were three major arteries of the heart.
18:3818 minutes, 38 secondsTwo of them had severe blockages. And I thought, “This is odd because I knew his lifestyle. This is my area of interest
18:4618 minutes, 46 secondsand expertise, heart disease specifically, how it progresses, how you can reverse it, all that stuff, what medications can do, what they can’t do
18:5318 minutes, 53 secondsas well.” And I thought to myself, hold on, I knew his scan from a few years earlier. Something has happened in the
19:0019 minuteslast 2 or 3 years that has caused a rapid acceleration in the disease of the
19:0819 minutes, 8 secondsheart, right? In terms of the blockages getting very rapidly, you know, um, uh,
19:1219 minutes, 12 secondsprogressing. And I thought, this doesn’t this this doesn’t make sense. And I thought to myself, was he just severely stressed? Like stress can do it. Very
19:2019 minutes, 20 secondssevere stress can do it. He’d lost obviously my mom a couple of years earlier, but he was a very resilient guy. He was a vice president of the
19:2819 minutes, 28 secondsBritish Medical Association. He was still involved in medical politics during COVID. He was one of the faces on the BBC during the COVID pandemic talking about, you know, how we should
19:3619 minutes, 36 secondsmanage this, etc. So, he was still very mentally active. He wasn’t a recluse sitting in the corner, you know, he was still social. So, doesn’t really fit.
19:4419 minutes, 44 secondsAnd then a publication appeared in the journal circulation which is considered a ver the premier cardiology journal and
19:5319 minutes, 53 secondsa cardiologist called Steven Gundry who you may have heard of. He’s done a lot of work in lifestyle and lectins and stuff. So he he had and he actually had
20:0020 minutesa very senior role in the American Heart Association very eminent published cardiologist. he published um an abstract where he had looked at several
20:0820 minutes, 8 secondshundred of of his patients who had taken the COVID vaccines specifically mRNA vaccines so either Fiser or Madna two
20:1720 minutes, 17 secondsdoses and what had happened was within 8 weeks of taking those jabs
20:2420 minutes, 24 secondstheir baseline risk went from 11% chance of a heart attack in 5 years to 25%
20:3120 minutes, 31 secondschance just within 8 weeks that is a huge jump. Like just to give you perspective, Steve, if I today decided that I was gonna just consume junk food,
Chapter 9: The vaccine causing body and heart inflammation
20:4220 minutes, 42 secondsall my meals, right? I was going to smoke 20 cigarettes a day. I was going to stop exercising. I wouldn’t get anywhere close to increasing my risk
20:5020 minutes, 50 secondswithin 8 weeks. And the mechanism was through inflammation. And I thought, ah,
20:5520 minutes, 55 secondsI know heart disease is a chronic inflammatory condition. Think it’s a lifestyle. So if this is even partially true, it means that the co vaccines may
21:0321 minutes, 3 secondsbe causing inflammation around the heart and that means that many people are going to have an acceleration in heart disease and that may explain what
21:1121 minutes, 11 secondshappened to my dad. But that was only one bit of data. Of course, a good scientist knows, okay, it gets you thinking. It’s a hypothesis potentially.
21:1821 minutes, 18 secondsObviously, there’s some data, but it’s not enough to be make it more than likely at this stage. And within two
21:2521 minutes, 25 secondsweeks, call it providence or whatever else, um I got a phone call from uh somebody who I know, I consider him uh
21:3321 minutes, 33 secondsyou know, one of the smartest cardiologists, very high integrity from very prestigious institution. And he called me up and he said, “Asim,
21:4221 minutes, 42 secondsI’ve got something to tell you. I’m very upset.” He said, “A group of researchers that I’m linked to in this institution
21:4921 minutes, 49 secondsum had accidentally found, and this is nothing to do with blood tests or cardiac risk, through an a very high-tech imaging of the heart modality
21:5721 minutes, 57 secondsthey were using, that there was inflammation of the arteries, which would cause obviously potentially heart attacks. That was there in the
22:0522 minutes, 5 secondsvaccinated, but not there in the unvaccinated. The lead researcher sat the team down and he said, “Guys, I just
22:1422 minutes, 14 secondswant to make this clear. We are not going to explore these findings any further because it may affect our funding from the drug industry.”
22:2222 minutes, 22 seconds[snorts] Now, obviously, people hearing this are going to think, “Wow, that is sounds corrupt. Um, this is something that has been a big problem within medicine for a very, very long time,
22:3122 minutes, 31 secondswhich isn’t getting an airing.” But it didn’t surprise me of that. But it was still quite shocking. But for me at that stage, Steve, it was okay, at the very
22:3922 minutes, 39 secondsleast, I should ask the question. And I was nervous about it. I had been someone took the jab myself. I went to Good
22:4722 minutes, 47 secondsMorning Britain and very early on when they were just offering it to high-risisk people to say that um I think that this is probably safe and
22:5522 minutes, 55 secondspeople shouldn’t be worried. And this was again specifically to address people from black and ethnic minority communities because there was a lower uptake amongst those communities. Partly
23:0323 minutes, 3 secondsalso because they often amongst some of the most marginal is marginalized members of society and they have less trust in authority in government. So you
23:1123 minutes, 11 secondscan see how the psychology plays in there and I convinced a friend of mine who’s a film director Ginda Chada who directed um Bendit like Beckham. You
23:1923 minutes, 19 secondsmight know some of her movies and we went on together in Good Morning Britain to say listen I think this and you know this is fine. So I had all of that and so I was in many ways I was
23:2623 minutes, 26 secondsindoctrinated and and there is you know and people don’t like to admit they’re wrong or think they’ve got it wrong. So for me to start turning or changing my
23:3523 minutes, 35 secondsmind or asking the question um is not necessarily an easy thing to do but I’ve done that throughout my career. So you know if anyone has the um character you
23:4523 minutes, 45 secondsI know myself to be able to say listen okay there’s new evidence here or whatever else I felt I could do that but I was still nervous and I thought you know this is not something that I think
23:5323 minutes, 53 secondsthe BBC are going to pick up on. I had a good rapport um with GB News at that point um and I still do and one of the
24:0224 minutes, 2 secondspresenters Alexander Phillips was a friend of mine and I called her up and said listen um you know we were doing she wanted me on anyway I was doing
24:0924 minutes, 9 secondsregular health slots every few weeks I said what I see what do you want to talk about next week and I said I think let’s talk about this said okay go on GB news
24:1824 minutes, 18 secondsI say you know the vaccine committee of the country should look into this this is what I know this is what I found whistleblower all this stuff I my dad
24:2524 minutes, 25 secondsdied as well and this may be the reason for his death. And I just asked that question and of course I didn’t expect it to go viral. You know, it got
24:3424 minutes, 34 secondsmillions of views and it was getting reach all over America and that kind of thing. Strangely, by this point, Steve,
24:4124 minutes, 41 secondsI don’t know if you remember, but Omicron wave had started and um we were getting reports from South Africa, which was really reassuring that from the
24:4924 minutes, 49 secondsdoctor that discovered it that this doesn’t seem to be more harmful than the flu. Now, great. Okay, it’s mutated.
24:5524 minutes, 55 secondsIt’s a different strain. This is really great news. And then Saja Javad around the same time the secretary for health had come out in parliament and said we
25:0325 minutes, 3 secondsare now going to pass through legislation that the COVID vaccine needs to be mandated for healthcare workers
25:1125 minutes, 11 secondsdespite the fact that the British Medical Association Medical Colleges we’ve never in our country one thing that’s really good especially within the medical establishment we don’t believe
25:1825 minutes, 18 secondsin mandating any drug. They do this in America. They’ve never done this here.
25:2225 minutes, 22 secondsAnd although they weren’t very vocal about it, they kind of were a bit relatively quiet. They weren’t supporting it openly saying that we should mandate. This was coming from this political decision. I thought this
25:3025 minutes, 30 secondsis very odd. At a stage now where we’re thinking there’s serious harm, we know it’s not. And by that stage, 2021,
25:3625 minutes, 36 secondsNovember, most people were understanding now it wasn’t stopping infection, right,
25:4025 minutes, 40 secondsfor most people, right? So I said, this doesn’t make any sense. So I then started campaigning on this issue. And I started campaigning on this issue. was
25:4825 minutes, 48 secondsable to get into the mainstream news on this particular issue because around that time um the I newspaper had
25:5525 minutes, 55 secondspublished an investigation into the delay that led to my dad’s death of the ambulance service right and I had also
26:0326 minutes, 3 secondsgot privy to knowledge in that you know in that story that the deputy chief nurse of NHS singing had called me up and said there had been basically a
26:1126 minutes, 11 secondscover up by the government and the department of health to stop people knowing for months there were ambulance delays doctors and members of public I thought this is unacceptable. So I
26:1826 minutes, 18 secondsexposed this. It became a massive story BBC news and when the BBC presenter saying Dr. Mahhatra what’s going on wrong with the NHS why is it failing why
26:2626 minutes, 26 secondsis this happening? I said it’s multiffactorial but I said one of the most important reasons is you failed we failed for years to address the root cause of what’s driving stress on the
26:3526 minutes, 35 secondssystem taking on the excesses of big food and big farmer. But I said, “Right now, we’ve got um 80 to, you know,
26:4426 minutes, 44 seconds100,000 NHS staff who are refusing to have the COVID vaccine. This would be a crisis. They’re going to lose their jobs. This is this mandate needs to be
26:5226 minutes, 52 secondsoverturned. It’s not scientific. It’s not ethical.” So, I got I got that into the mainstream and ultimately we end up overturning, right? The the the um the mandate. Um but there was a backlash,
27:0327 minutes, 3 secondsSteve, behind the scenes. And I’ve not been public about this before, so I’m going to tell you this for the first time because I think it’s time I I tell this story. Shortly after me going on GB News as a doctor who’d had the vaccine,
27:1527 minutes, 15 secondshad been on Good Morning Britain to say it was likely safe and effective to then talking about we should maybe look into this and maybe pause the situation
27:2227 minutes, 22 secondsbecause of um these heart issues that need to be investigated. I received an email from the Royal College of
27:3027 minutes, 30 secondsPhysicians, this is the oldest medical institution in the world, saying, “Dr.
27:3427 minutes, 34 secondsDr. Mahhatra um we have received a number of anonymous complaints from other fellows
27:4127 minutes, 41 secondsthat you uh in reference to my GB news interview that you are spreading antiax misinformation
27:4927 minutes, 49 secondsand you’ve got four weeks to respond to this and they were saying all the different sanctions that could happen because of me doing this right Steve at
27:5727 minutes, 57 secondsthat point I thought if we are going to get a pause on this vaccine and really investigate it it’s because of such an IND indoctrination because so many
28:0528 minutes, 5 secondspeople, billions of people around the world have taken this and therefore the the the battle to expose it is going to be harder than anything I’ve ever done.
28:1428 minutes, 14 secondsThe only way in my only chance is to get it published in a peer-reviewed journal and then to get it into the news. I spent 9 months at that stage literally
28:2328 minutes, 23 secondseating, breathing, sleeping, speaking to two FISA whistleblowers, speaking to eminent scientists in expertise I didn’t have around immunology and vaccine
Chapter 10: Being accused of spreading misinformation
28:3128 minutes, 31 secondsdevelopment. Of course, I had the understanding of cardiology, you know,
28:3528 minutes, 35 secondsbetter than anybody in in this particular field, in this particular area. And when I did that research and
28:4228 minutes, 42 secondslooked at it, I first of all concluded that there absolutely needs to be a suspension of the vaccine because um
28:5028 minutes, 50 secondswhat happened by the summer of 2022 and this is actually the the most crucial and important piece of data on its own which should have been enough to suspend
28:5828 minutes, 58 secondsit and actually suggest that it probably shouldn’t have been rolled out in the first place is that those trials that
29:0529 minutes, 5 secondswere done by Fiser and Madna which led to the all the media reports 95 100%
29:1129 minutes, 11 secondseffective um you know the approval by the regulator the roll out the coercion the mandates they were reanalyzed by
29:1929 minutes, 19 secondssome very eminent scientists including the associate editor the BMJ the one of the world’s top epidemiologists and they published in the journal vaccine which
29:2829 minutes, 28 secondsis the premier journal for vaccines and they were able to get new data that was made available on health Canada’s website and the FDA in America’s website
29:3729 minutes, 37 secondsand what they did in their reanalysis of the original highquality clinical trials is they found Steve you were more likely
29:4529 minutes, 45 secondsto suffer serious harm from taking the vaccine at a rate of 1 in 800 that meant hospitalization disability or a
29:5229 minutes, 52 secondslife-changing event than you were to be hospitalized with COVID and this is during the early phase right this is during the most most lethal strain
30:0030 minutesfor all age groups yes well absolutely well they put all age groups together so on average in all age groups that’s a very good question
30:0830 minutes, 8 secondsum but what’s missing is that actually okay is there a benefit that’s greater than harm in certain age groups but we can indirectly answer that in a second
Chapter 11: The harm of the vaccine
30:1730 minutes, 17 secondsso that was the original trial so on average it was more harmful than beneficial okay but even before talking about all age groups Steve a 1 in 800
30:2630 minutes, 26 secondsharm rate for a vaccine is completely unacceptable in the sense that we have pulled other vaccines in the past for
30:3430 minutes, 34 secondsmuch less harm the swine flu vaccine was suspended globally because it was found to cause Gillian Barry syndrome a
30:4130 minutes, 41 secondsdebilitating neurological condition in one in a 100,000 people. Rotovirus vaccine was pulled in 1999 because it was found to cause a form of bowel obstruction in children at 1 in 10,000.
30:5230 minutes, 52 secondsSo you’ve already got a harm rate of 1800 irrespective of right. So that first and foremost should be a red flag to say hold on this is this is too much.
31:0031 minutesWhen they say harm rate how do they what’s the the range of definitions of harm? Well, in this one they categorize serious harm as it caused you to be hospitalized.
31:0931 minutes, 9 secondsYeah. It caused a disability. Okay. Or something that was life-changing.
31:1331 minutes, 13 secondsNow, of course, that can incorporate lots of different things, but of those,
31:1731 minutes, 17 secondsand I spoke to the lead researcher I know work with him on other things, um 40% of those serious harms were actually related to clotting disorders like lung clots, heart attacks, etc.
31:2731 minutes, 27 secondsI want to make sure I’m super clear here because I don’t understand um the the data you’re citing. So you’re saying that they found that one in 800 people would have serious harm or harm.
31:3731 minutes, 37 secondsUh serious harm. Serious harm. Serious.
31:3931 minutes, 39 secondsOne in 800 people had in the trials. One in 800. Yeah. One in 800. Serious harm. Right now just to give you perspective so you can balance it out just because this is important.
31:4831 minutes, 48 secondsIt’s a question you’ve asked is really important. um we didn’t have any good real world data at that point on
31:5731 minutes, 57 secondscan we separate vaccinated from unvaccinated to look at what the hospitalization rate would be for COVID for example in people who took the
32:0632 minutes, 6 secondsvaccine versus the people that didn’t according to age group that data in the whole world the only country to get make that data available was the UK and they
32:1432 minutes, 14 secondsdid that in the beginning of uh 2023 so January last year and What did that show? After two doses of the FISA
32:2332 minutes, 23 secondsvaccine, Steve, if you were over 70, so this is the highest risk group, you had to vaccinate 2,500 people to prevent one person being hospitalized with COVID.
32:3732 minutes, 37 secondsAnd this was with the different strain,
32:3832 minutes, 38 secondsthe omnicom strain, because the original strain was Yeah, it was they didn’t Yeah, it was.
32:4332 minutes, 43 secondsYou’re right. It was with the Omicron strain. So that was still, but it gave us a ballpark figure that even that. So it’s like it’s like so say a patient comes to me and says doc what are the
32:5132 minutes, 51 secondsbenefits of this drug as a prevention whatever else and I say to them well if you take this there’s a one in 2,500 chance it will help you prevent you
32:5832 minutes, 58 secondsbeing hospitalized I’ll be honest with you Steve I mean in medicine in all the drugs I’ve used and all the data I know about different medications and heart
33:0733 minutes, 7 secondsdisease etc that figure I mean it’s a very serious issue but that figure is a joke I mean there’s nothing of that of such poor and then when you get under
33:1533 minutes, 15 secondsthe a when you get to people under the age of say uh 50 you’re talking about having to vaccinate maybe several hundred thousand to prevent one one
33:2333 minutes, 23 secondsis that relevant for that the first strain of co as well because or do we not have the data on that because we don’t have that data on that we do in my paper which I published actually we
33:3133 minutes, 31 secondsdid have some data on delta and if I remember correctly the data on the over 70s the there’s also problems with this a little bit because it’s not corrected
33:3933 minutes, 39 secondsfor other factors such as social economics etc risk factors of you that [snorts] might make people more vulnerable So, if I remember correctly
33:4733 minutes, 47 secondsfrom that paper, if you’re over 70, that was about 1 in 250. Delta was the worst strain, actually. So, about 1 in 250. Okay. On the British Heart Foundation website,
33:5533 minutes, 55 secondsI’m sure you’ve read this. Um, just to read out what they say on there,
34:0034 minutesit says that up to one in 10,000 people with the FISA vaccine might experience are at risk of mo myocarditis or pericarditis.
34:1134 minutes, 11 secondsHave I pronounced that correctly? Yeah.
34:1234 minutes, 12 secondsUp to one in 10,000 people for the Madna vaccine. And uh it’s not possible to estimate other vaccines because they’re not frequently used in the UK. All three
34:2134 minutes, 21 secondsof these COVID 19 vaccines are mRNA vaccines designed to target the omnicon omnicom strain. And at the top of this
34:2834 minutes, 28 secondsit says the risk of myocarditis or pericarditis after covid-19 vaccine is very low. How do you respond to that? Do you think you agree with that?
34:3634 minutes, 36 secondsNo, I don’t agree with it at all. I think there are a number of layers to respond to this. I think the first thing to say Steve is the British Art Foundation with the greatest respect to
Chapter 12: Responding to the British Heart Foundation comments
34:4434 minutes, 44 secondsthem and they do a lot of good work overall is still part of the so-called establishment which has been blinded for
34:5134 minutes, 51 secondsyears to actually even address so many issues on health when it doesn’t uh suit the interests of big farmer and and and
35:0035 minutesI can say that categorically because I know one of the the the chief advisor uh uh to heart disease um for the British
35:0835 minutes, 8 secondsHeart Foundation with the greatest respect to him is a guy called professor Rory Collins um University of Oxford and they have said similar things when it
35:1735 minutes, 17 secondscomes to statin drugs which we’ll talk about later um but that person the people who advise them are people who are heavily funded and linked to pharma
35:2535 minutes, 25 secondstaking their institutions taking hundreds of millions for example so there’s a huge bias there to start with that’s the first thing but it for me
35:3335 minutes, 33 secondswhat the British Heart Foundation are not doing is actually countering and I would love them to counter that cuz I’m very open for the debate here is that
35:4135 minutes, 41 secondsyou’ve got a reanalysis of and they know this the best way of determining serious harm from any drug is actually looking
35:4935 minutes, 49 secondsone of the best ways is the highest quality level of evidence which is the randomized control trials which is what led to the approval when you’ve got an independent reanalysis in a
35:5735 minutes, 57 secondspeer-reviewed journal saying more harm than good from the beginning that in itself and and then we look at real world data Steve there’s so many other
36:0436 minutes, 4 secondsbits of data that they are ignoring basically to answer your question they’re ignoring ing lots of other data which is very clear whether it’s autopsy
36:1236 minutes, 12 secondsdata whether it’s other studies that came out of Israel that showed for example this was published in a journal called nature scientific reports and again they ignore this they don’t talk
36:2036 minutes, 20 secondsabout it so it’s it’s like hold on guys this is you’re ignoring you’re not even mentioning this data they showed and this is really most disturbing in 2021
36:3036 minutes, 30 secondsthere was a 25% increase in heart attacks and or cardiac arrests in people
36:3636 minutes, 36 secondsaged between 16 and 39 which was associated with the COVID vaccine but not associated with COVID.
36:4536 minutes, 45 secondsHow do they how do they tease out I was thinking about um you know the increase in heart related conditions around the pandemic and following the pandemic and
36:5436 minutes, 54 secondsin in much of your work and I think in this book I can’t actually pronounce the word pop diet. Pop diet,
36:5836 minutes, 58 secondsthe Popey diet. You talk about how these other sort of lifestyle factors like community, friendships, relationships, stress, mental health, being sedentary,
37:0637 minutes, 6 secondssedentary, all of these things can contribute to heart problems. So when I think about the pandemic, I go, people weren’t seeing their friends. We were stressed more than ever. People were losing their jobs. They were furoughed.
37:1637 minutes, 16 secondsUm they had mental health, you know, we saw the mental health uh stats explode. Yeah.
37:2137 minutes, 21 secondsUm all the factors there that are linked to heart disease. So, how do we know that it it wasn’t th those factors of the
37:2937 minutes, 29 secondspandemic that caused an increase in heart related issues and how do how can we tease that out from the the vaccine?
Chapter 13: Our lifestyle choices contribute to our heart problems
37:3537 minutes, 35 secondsReally good question. Um because remember I also said that early on before I realized the vaccine might be playing a role. I actually thought that was that was the most likely explanation
37:4437 minutes, 44 secondsof the increased heart attacks, lockdown stress, poor diet, etc.
37:4737 minutes, 47 secondsYou’d expect to see an increase in you would you would and I think it has played a role, Steve, for sure it has played a role. But then when you look at the quality of data to say how much of a
37:5537 minutes, 55 secondsrole that’s played that it it’s on a different level when you look at the vaccine when you look at the plausible
38:0438 minutes, 4 secondsmechanism you look at the types of people that are dying young people and stuff like that it doesn’t fit. Um I’ll be honest my personal view it is a primary driver without any shadow of a
38:1338 minutes, 13 secondsdoubt in my mind and a personal view of the excess deaths. As a scientist, I’ll say it’s a likely significant contributing factor, but probably the
38:2038 minutes, 20 secondsmost likely because another aspect to all of this is what we call pharmarmaccovigilance reports. So these
38:2738 minutes, 27 secondsare reports that are done by members of the public when they they have an adverse reaction to any drug and it’s not easy to fill in. You fill in these
38:3538 minutes, 35 secondswhat we call yellow card scheme. You can get it online and you send it off to your doctor or to you know the regulator. those reports and I’ve
38:4338 minutes, 43 secondsthroughout my career I’ve never seen the extent like for example I’ll give you an example um after 9.7 million doses of the Astrogenica vaccine which was
38:5238 minutes, 52 secondsultimately pulled right astrogenica of course was also one of the co vaccines there were 800,000 in this country 800,000 yellow card reports now some of
39:0039 minutesthem um are not going to be serious serious but people don’t fill in a yellow card report if you’ve had a bit of a fever after having a vaccine
39:0839 minutes, 8 secondsthey’ve felt quite ill ill enough to that’s already and then within at it’s estimated maybe one in five of those from other data would suggest serious
39:1639 minutes, 16 secondsharm. So other data from reporting and with the so with about I think 30 million doses if it was probably about 30 million doses of FISA we had about
39:2539 minutes, 25 seconds500,000 yellow card reports in this country right which is still a lot you know that’s one in 60 yellow card reports now they’re all not going to be super serious hospitalization death
39:3339 minutes, 33 secondswhatever else um but when you put all of the data together Steve that it paints a picture that makes it look as clear as a
39:4239 minutes, 42 secondsday that anybody doubting you know it should the the evidence should be this is the primary cause of the excess deaths until proven otherwise. That’s
39:5139 minutes, 51 secondsthe level of evidence, Steve, but it’s just being ignored. It’s being ignored and I can talk about why it’s being ignored.
39:5739 minutes, 57 secondsOne of the things I’ve been sort of gaps in my head that I’ve been keen to fill is do you believe that if we hadn’t have
40:0640 minutes, 6 secondsintroduced the vaccine, more or less people would have survived CO? Because I’ve got close friends of mine that got COVID and I watched them go from very
40:1440 minutes, 14 secondshealthy looking people to basically skeletons. Good friend actually good friend one of the CEOs of my company his dad went from being a very healthy man to being basically looking like a
40:2240 minutes, 22 secondsskeleton and almost died. And then I’ve got I know of other people that did die.
40:2640 minutes, 26 secondsSo I think in the grand scheme of things when we think about um vaccines was it a net positive that we had a vaccine?
40:3440 minutes, 34 secondsThere is from everything I know now I’ve slowly and reluctantly come to the conclusion that the COVID vaccine
40:4340 minutes, 43 secondsintroduction has had a catastrophic overall net negative effect on the
Chapter 14: Did the vaccine have a net negative result?
40:5140 minutes, 51 secondspopulation and society. And one of the re and and let me just caveat this because you’ve mentioned the fact that people suffered from COVID and I’m not denying that. I’ve got patients, Steve,
41:0241 minutes, 2 secondsthat I see that have had long CO that weren’t vaccinated, okay? And have suffered quite badly.
41:0841 minutes, 8 secondsMost of the most serious aspects of COVID happened early on in 2020 and predominantly affected the elderly.
41:1641 minutes, 16 secondsWe’ve got all of that data now that’s been reanalyzed by one of the world’s top scientists. And even looking back now, essentially if you were under 70,
41:2541 minutes, 25 secondseven from the beginning, your risk of serious harm from COVID is in the ballpark figure of the flu, right? And
41:3341 minutes, 33 secondseven I actually was wrong. I wrote an article in European scientist in Mar in April 2020 because I actually initially
41:4241 minutes, 42 secondsstarted making a lot of noise about why we not talking about lifestyle with COVID to help people mitigate, you know, the immune improve their immune system.
41:4941 minutes, 49 secondsAnd I said, you know, talking to um a friend of mine who works in the busiest DR in America in in New York who I’ve done work with and he said, it seemed
41:5841 minutes, 58 secondsthis is I’ve never seen anything like this is devastating. Some of my colleagues are dying. So I have no doubt that at the very beginning in the early strain of the virus, it was really bad
42:0642 minutes, 6 secondsespecially for vulnerable people, people with obesity, etc.
42:0942 minutes, 9 secondsCuz you know I I I remember getting CO I was actually used to live on the top floor of this building and I remember I’ve never experienced anything quite as bizarre as the symptom set that I had
42:1842 minutes, 18 secondswhen I got CO. The fact that at 3:00 a.m. in the morning, I don’t take medicine. So, fact [snorts] at 3:00 a.m.
42:2242 minutes, 22 secondsin the morning, I’m lying flat on my floor ordering ibuprofen on Uber Eats because my back I just had the most
42:2942 minutes, 29 secondsbizarre like back pain. And so, I was having to like lie flat on the floor cuz I couldn’t even lie in bed. It was so bad.
42:3642 minutes, 36 secondsJust this weird set of symptoms that I’d never had before. My my partner, she lost her smell and taste. And it was so unusual. It was so unusual. Um
42:4442 minutes, 44 secondsthere’s not been a time in my lifetime that people have lost their smell and taste on mass. So when I when it when you hear it compared to the flu, you go,
42:5142 minutes, 51 seconds”This was not the flu. This is something different.”
42:5342 minutes, 53 secondsYes. No, the symptoms are very different. And I think now it’s accepted um that um and we won’t go into a lot of detail, but I think one of the reasons
43:0143 minutes, 1 secondas well, it was human engineered. You know, almost certainly the evidence points to it being a lab leak, right? So it had a very You’re right. It was very different to any other virus that used to be a conspiracy theory.
43:1143 minutes, 11 secondsI know, right? Now it’s not a conspiracy theory.
43:1343 minutes, 13 seconds[laughter]
43:1343 minutes, 13 secondsI know. I know. Exactly.
43:1443 minutes, 14 secondsIt’s funny. Yeah. when you heard about that that that lab in Wuhan that were messing around with viruses [laughter]
43:1843 minutes, 18 secondsand then we we decided to put the blame on like a market store but I think now the general consensus is that it probably came from that lab in Wuhan.
43:2543 minutes, 25 secondsYeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. And I’ve spoken to in fact I I spent time with actually the scientists that first went public with it who identified it um
43:3243 minutes, 32 secondsguy in America sorry in Australia. Um so yeah that came from lab but so I think it had these different strange things loss of smell etc. But in terms of
43:4043 minutes, 40 secondsserious illness, um it was there at the beginning. Now when you when you look back, I think essentially there were vulnerable elderly but uh you know who
Chapter 15: COVID was a lab leak
43:4943 minutes, 49 secondswho suffered um especially people in nursing homes with a lot of deaths there. But there’s so many other components to this. So one is did we
43:5743 minutes, 57 secondsinstitute the correct treatments? A lot of people were killed because they weren’t managed properly in ITU, you know, in terms of putting people incubating them, putting on respirators
44:0644 minutes, 6 secondswhen they didn’t need it. And that in itself has a risk. um some of the wrong treatments were given. There were other treatments now that we look back that probably would have been helpful things
44:1444 minutes, 14 secondslike ivormectin which I know has been a bit controversial but um was very it’s a very safer than paracetamol right so first do no harm okay um but it may have
44:2244 minutes, 22 secondsdone some good and a lot of people and doctors around the world that used it in several thousand there’s a doctor in South Africa that used it in 14,000 patients including many elderly not a
44:3044 minutes, 30 secondssingle one died from co and this is early on so all these things that we missed we miss a lifestyle intervention so all those things are there but by the time you get to the end of 2020 the
44:3944 minutes, 39 secondsbeginning of 2021 on there are so many things that happened Steve that you have to think about before you introduce a vaccine. One is what is the state of the virus right now um and it had already
44:4844 minutes, 48 secondsmutated to some degree and become less lethal. There is natural immunity which we know is very powerful right um and
44:5644 minutes, 56 secondsbut the issue with the vaccine is and certainly it was probably there from the beginning. We know that when one looks
45:0345 minutes, 3 secondsat the original trials there was a and this is what the drug companies have doing for a long long period of time.
45:0945 minutes, 9 secondsThey will mislead people using statistics about the benefits. So use something called relative risk reduction. Let me just explain this
45:1745 minutes, 17 secondsbecause you can apply this to statins as well. Is they presented the benefit as a 95% protection against infection.
45:2445 minutes, 24 secondsRemember that figure 95% right? And it was what we call relative risk reduction. So if you’ve got for example two groups in
45:3345 minutes, 33 secondsa trial, say 100 in one trial in in in in one group and 100 in another and let’s just say let’s give you an example of statins and you’re you’re following
45:4245 minutes, 42 secondsthem up over 5 years to look at a drug to see if it benefits them in preventing having a heart attack.
45:4845 minutes, 48 secondsIn one group they get the dummy pill um and you follow them up over five years. And in the people that got the dummy pill, in fact you didn’t do anything different, two of them suffered a heart attack.
Chapter 16: The drug companies misleading us
45:5845 minutes, 58 secondsIn the other group, the other hundred people that were followed up over five years who got the pill, the the drug, right, only one suffered a heart attack.
46:0746 minutes, 7 secondsSo you’ve reduced the heart attack risk by 50%. Right? Two to one, right? 50%.
46:1346 minutes, 13 secondsBut you’ve only prevented one heart attack. You’ve treated 100 people, but you’ve prevented one heart attack out of treating 100. Yeah. Does that make sense? So that’s a 1% absolute benefit.
46:2246 minutes, 22 secondsIn other words, when you explain that to a patient, when I ask when I have engage in sort of what we call informed consent, shared decision-making, when
46:3046 minutes, 30 secondsthey ask me about drug, I’ll say, “This gives you a 1% chance if you take this drug religiously of preventing a heart attack.” Now, you you apply that to the
46:3746 minutes, 37 secondsoriginal COVID vaccine trials, which by the way have so many other problems with them because even those trials were conducted and analyzed and designed by
46:4646 minutes, 46 secondsthe drug industry. I mean this is one of the biggest myths that needs to be busted Steve out there for most doctors um as well as members of the public medical knowledge is under commercial control but most people don’t know that.
46:5746 minutes, 57 secondsSo what happens is they did the trial but let’s just talk about what the results their their results showed us a 95% relative risk reduction against
47:0547 minutes, 5 secondsinfection. They didn’t show any reduction in uh co death by the way in that trial right they just said prevent from infection but we then presume it
47:1347 minutes, 13 secondsmay then prevent right uh reduce death rates absolute risk reduction from infection at the beginning was one was 0.84%.
47:2447 minutes, 24 secondsOne in 119 so that’s how many people you need to vaccinate to prevent one infection which actually people were not told that. So imagine you’re thinking, should I take
47:3347 minutes, 33 secondsthis vaccine? Say, well Steve, there’s a one less than 1% chance that it’s going to prevent you getting infected. People weren’t told that.
47:3947 minutes, 39 secondsBut but that it then reduce my chance of getting seriously ill. Right. No, but we’ve then talked about that,
47:4447 minutes, 44 secondshaven’t we? Like as in when you look at the data certainly beginning of 2023 that was looking over the previous year,
47:4947 minutes, 49 seconds2022, you have to vaccinate 2,500 people to prevent one person getting seriously ill with COVID, right? If you’re over 70 with the second with the other strain,
47:5847 minutes, 58 secondsbut with the other strain and it may have been better, Steve, you’re right. It may it probably was better but it still numbers are still much smaller than what people were led to believe. And and by
48:0548 minutes, 5 secondsthe way Steve the narrative at the beginning they kept changing the goalpost. Remember it wasn’t about preventing serious illness and death. It was all about preventing infection. You
48:1348 minutes, 13 secondsare not in America you’ve seen it all over CNN Rachel Madau and she’s saying it so passionately. If you take this
48:2148 minutes, 21 secondsvaccine you are not going to get COVID and calling anyone who who questions it being a science deny. I mean Jesus Christ. So my last question on that
48:3048 minutes, 30 secondsbefore I I say I was going to say is um do you think there would have been less deaths overall if we hadn’t have had a vaccine?
48:4048 minutes, 40 secondsYes.
48:4148 minutes, 41 secondsYou think there would have been less deaths by now when you look at it. So I think over time so so where we are now start um
48:4948 minutes, 49 secondsso if we hadn’t have introduced the vaccine for that first strain of co you think there’d be less deaths.
48:5448 minutes, 54 secondsOkay. If I was to I still think that if okay this is very nuanced but important.
49:0449 minutes, 4 secondsIf the vaccine had only been offered to the high-risisk people at the beginning,
49:1249 minutes, 12 secondssay the over 70s or people with multiple risk factors, [snorts] I think there is a case to be made,
Chapter 17: Do you think there would have been less death without the vaccine?
49:1849 minutes, 18 secondsright? I’m going to counter that in a minute though. But there is a case to be made that there was overall benefit versus harm. But there’s a problem. One,
49:2649 minutes, 26 secondsthere wasn’t true informed consent,
49:2949 minutes, 29 secondsright? Because those figures, those numbers weren’t given to pay people about the prevention of infection, etc.,
49:3349 minutes, 33 secondsRight. Um and two, if you have an average serious harm rate of 1 in 800,
49:3949 minutes, 39 secondsany scientist, even regulators would have said, “Hold on a minute. This is way too high. This is too risky.” And this is, by the way, Steve, only the
49:4749 minutes, 47 secondsshort-term. Because remember, this vaccine didn’t go through what other vaccines have gone through, which is 5 to 10 years of safety testing.
49:5449 minutes, 54 seconds[snorts]
49:5449 minutes, 54 secondsSo if you throw all those caveats in and use informed consent, I can guarantee you with all of my knowledge, expertise,
50:0350 minutes, 3 secondsexperience with patients when you engage in these conversations, most of those elderly people will probably still refused it. But but but yes, I think
50:1250 minutes, 12 secondsthere is a case to be made that the the benefits may have outweighed the harms in those high-risisk people at the very beginning in the short term. Absolutely.
50:2050 minutes, 20 secondsYou know, when I think about Rachel Maddau and what she said on TV about,
50:2450 minutes, 24 secondsyou know, that it’s going to stop the spread of infection, etc., I can have a degree of empathy
50:3150 minutes, 31 secondsbecause if that’s the information you’re being fed and you are a public-f facing broadcaster and it’s being fed to you by scientists
50:4050 minutes, 40 secondsand it’s been fed to you by the NHS and whoever else and you know, very credible people that you’ve been raised to believe and to trust. If you’re a public
50:4850 minutes, 48 secondsfacing broadcaster, what else are you going to say? You’re not going to say the opposite. You’re not you can’t sit on the fence. Your job is to broadcast.
50:5450 minutes, 54 secondsIt’s the news, right? So I I have and I think you did the same. You said earlier you went on Good Morning Britain or something and and I’m not blaming Rachel Mad here. I’m just saying that the indoctrination that
51:0351 minutes, 3 secondscame through the mainstream media was so strong through people like Rachel Maddo.
51:0651 minutes, 6 secondsAnd why is that important, Steve? I had a conversation with the chairman of the British Medical Association in December 2021 when I was campaigning to overturn vaccine mandates for healthcare workers.
Chapter 18: The government said the vaccine will protect us from COVID…
51:1751 minutes, 17 secondsHe had access to Saji Javid. I had a previous uh rapport with Matt Hanok but he had obviously left by then. Um and I
51:2451 minutes, 24 secondsspoke to his name Shan Nagpaul and I explained him everything I knew about the vaccine after looking at data at that point. I hadn’t published at this point but I went through it in in in in
51:3251 minutes, 32 secondsa logical way. chairman of the BMA, by the way, not just some random person. And he said, “Asim,
51:3951 minutes, 39 secondsno one appears to have critically appraised the evidence on the vaccine as well as you have from our two-hour chat.
51:4451 minutes, 44 secondsMost of my colleagues who are in senior policy, you know,
51:4951 minutes, 49 secondsmedical positions, establishment positions are getting their information on the benefits and harms of the vaccine from the BBC.” It’s it’s super difficult.
51:5751 minutes, 57 secondsIsn’t that extraordinary, though? I think it’s really difficult because if I if you’re dealing with lots of people dying on mass and it’s happened very
52:0552 minutes, 5 secondsvery quickly and people are just dropping dead and you’re seeing you know hospitals being overrun,
52:1252 minutes, 12 secondsyou’ve got to you got to tread carefully with the information you’re putting out there.
52:1752 minutes, 17 secondsSo, if the scientific information comes in early and maybe a little bit too too soon before it’s really been vetted and triple checked, saying one thing
52:2652 minutes, 26 secondsand you’re desperate for answers, I can I can see why a group of people would say, “Okay, this is the best information.” And then to go against that information could potentially cause
52:3452 minutes, 34 secondstons of harm. So, I can also imagine why a group of people would be really slow to then change their mind away from that because you’re dealing with like
52:4252 minutes, 42 secondsSteve, I was that person, too. So, I’m with you on that 100%. I think where I’m taking this is the system if it had been
52:4852 minutes, 48 secondsmore transparent early on and this is where I’ve been, you know, banging my,
52:5452 minutes, 54 secondsyou know, head against a brick wall to some degree for about a decade. If there was more transparency in the system, we would have had better information even from the beginning. But that information
53:0253 minutes, 2 secondswas kept commercially confidential because of the system that really is geared towards uh supporting the
53:1053 minutes, 10 secondsinterests of big farmer not in the interest of people’s health and that and and if that and that’s the key point here right this is we’re looking back over time think how did this happen how
53:1953 minutes, 19 secondsdo we allow this to happen we need to go deeper say how do we stop this happening again in the future so we have better information that’s all I’m saying do you think it is malicious at like a
53:2753 minutes, 27 secondsgovernment level do you think no you don’t think it is not at all I um know many politicians uh very senior people um cross party uh
53:3653 minutes, 36 secondssome of them I call my friends uh many of them come to me for medical advice right um in fact one of them uh you know he lost 100 pounds on my POPY diet with
53:4453 minutes, 44 secondsTom Watson the deputy leader of the Labour party right so um and and and these genuinely by and large are decent people that want to do
53:5153 minutes, 51 secondsthe right thing but they are also fed you know misinformation by lobbyists they take as expert opinion or
53:5853 minutes, 58 secondsinformation stuff that has been created for the purposes of the interest of big food or big farmer. you know, when I um campaigned on you getting the sugar tax
54:0754 minutes, 7 secondsintroduced, you know, I wrote articles in the BMJ and I started ranging every newspaper and I remember I thought we’re going to win this because the front page of the Daily Mail was sugar is a new
Chapter 19: Is it a malicious action from the government?
54:1654 minutes, 16 secondstobacco and that put pressure on the then secretary Jeremy Hunt because the male then decided they were going to go right and of course you know that
54:2454 minutes, 24 secondsgovernment conservative government are particularly you know influenced by what the Daily Mail writes because they traditionally one of their supporters
54:3154 minutes, 31 secondsbut there was a story around that time where they exposed and it was on the front page that government ministers in terms of obesity strategy, how do we
54:4054 minutes, 40 secondssolve the obesity epidemic had had 99 meetings with representatives of the food industry and not a single meeting with a public health doctor for example.
54:5154 minutes, 51 secondsSo I know how that hap that obviously that the system should be more transparent to make sure that they understand that those those politicians but many of them um were shocked you
55:0055 minutesknow when I when I told them this information they trust me um one of them you know was a very a former government minister who who said it seem you know
55:0855 minutes, 8 secondsthis is she’s shocked by it but like now understands it they they were captured as well but we were all we were in a state of fear Steve as well we let’s not underestimate that at the very beginning we were all scared we didn’t know what
55:1755 minutes, 17 secondswe were dealing with and of course we have to have empathy for ourselves when you’re in a state of fear right for all be you know I think it was a big error
55:2655 minutes, 26 secondsto some degree and everybody was scared and I don’t think it was malicious to create that fear initially um it stops us you know being being able
55:3555 minutes, 35 secondspsychologically it inhibits your ability to engage in critical thinking and all of us were in that position is there a risk now that if there was a deadly vac
55:4455 minutes, 44 secondsdeadly virus that broke out across the world people are so scared of vaccines now that they would not go and get it
55:5255 minutes, 52 secondsbecause there something I was saying to my friend the other day I was like we’ve gotten to a point now where I think so many people are skeptical about vaccines that if if something does come from
56:0056 minutesanother lab somewhere and it is really fatal and the government stand on that podium again and say hands face or
56:0856 minutes, 8 secondswhatever it was that slogan and they say um we need you to all go get this vaccine who’s going to go get it
56:1556 minutes, 15 secondsyeah no I I agree I don’t like that situation I don’t want us to be in this situ situation. But you’re right, there is and there will be another pandemic.
56:2256 minutes, 22 secondsThere there is a big risk and um the way around that is and this is what we’re taught as doctors,
56:2956 minutes, 29 secondsright? It’s one of the things that is ingrained into us as a medical school um is that when you make a mistake, you tell the patient.
Chapter 20: How are we meant to trust the government if this happens again?
56:3956 minutes, 39 secondsPatients are very forgiving if they think and know that you acted from a place of good intent cuz mistakes
56:4756 minutes, 47 secondshappen, things go wrong. this is what we need as a MIA culpa right I was willing to do that I mean in some way I was
56:5556 minutes, 55 secondspartly responsible certainly at the very early stage to support a vaccine roll out but I know that the most important
57:0357 minutes, 3 secondsthing for me to do when new information comes available and medicine again is not an exact science it evolves but let’s play that out let’s play that
57:1057 minutes, 10 secondsout so if we do if we had a situation where the I don’t know the scientist that said really positive things about the vaccine that it was side effect free
57:1857 minutes, 18 secondsor whatever They come out now and they say, “We were totally wrong.” And they say, “We got it.” So, so let’s let’s play out that scenario. What would
57:2557 minutes, 25 secondshappen the next day on social media is everybody who was criticized or critiqued or lost their job or was, I
57:3257 minutes, 32 secondsdon’t know, in some way penalized for their views that there might be side effects that we’re not talking about,
57:3857 minutes, 38 secondswould immediately go to their their base of their audience and say, “I told you so.” the conspiracy theorists on the
57:4557 minutes, 45 secondsinternet who are really extreme that believe that there’s a group of people wearing like tin hats that have come up with this idea, they would be empowered
57:5357 minutes, 53 secondsand what you’d then have is a situation where another vac another pandemic rolls in from a far away land. those people said, “Listen, you know, those people
58:0258 minutes, 2 secondsthat you see what I’m to say it it would in my mind it would fuel the um the
58:0958 minutes, 9 secondsnarrative that vaccines are bad and less like people would be less likely to take them because we’re not driven by facts,
58:1658 minutes, 16 secondsstats, graphs, and figures. We’re driven by emotion.”
58:1858 minutes, 18 secondsY it’s much more powerful than just if a scientist standing there and showing me a graph. It’s how I feel which matters the most. And if I felt
58:2658 minutes, 26 secondslike I was betrayed and lied to, there’s no chance that I’d run down and get another jab or something in my arm.
58:3458 minutes, 34 secondsIt’s an uncomfortable truth that needs facing though, Steve, because if we don’t face it, these problems are going to carry on. We’re not going to improve the situation by ignoring it and
58:4158 minutes, 41 secondssweeping under the carpet. So, there will be that, you’re right, there will be that backlash. I myself have had that, right? I’ve had people, you know,
58:4858 minutes, 48 secondsI I got heckled, you know, um a talk I gave on this for the first time when I spoke at it in London, um saying, “I was part of it all. You’re a liar.” All this
58:5758 minutes, 57 secondsstuff. Yeah, absolutely. I I got, you know, exploiters were thrown at me. And I I understand where that emotion comes from. But at the end of the day, the only way we can progress and evolve is it just accepting. But that, you know,
59:0959 minutes, 9 secondsbecause we want to then it’s not just about saying we got this wrong. It’s actually explaining to people and saying, “Okay, we thought we were doing the right thing. These are problems in
59:1759 minutes, 17 secondsthe system we weren’t aware of. Most people are not aware of this. We need to resolve this and move forward with greater transparency. And over time now,
59:2459 minutes, 24 secondsokay, within the immediate aftermath, of course, there’s going to be that emotional reaction. There’s going to be a backlash if there happen to be a pandemic within a short space of time
59:3259 minutes, 32 secondsafter that admission. Yes, it may well be that people aren’t going to go and take vaccines. But why should they, Steve? Vaccines are can save your life.
59:4059 minutes, 40 secondsNo, no, no. I’m talking about a new anything new. I’m not talking about So,
59:4259 minutes, 42 secondsyes, absolutely. Traditional vaccines. I mean, I’m still a big subscriber and supporter, let me just make this clear,
59:4859 minutes, 48 secondsof traditional vaccines. In my paper that I wrote, I said, you know,
59:5059 minutes, 50 secondsestimates suggest vaccines have saved 4 to 5 million lives a year. And the serious harm rate of vaccines, I think there’s, of course, there’s going to be
59:5859 minutes, 58 secondsnothing’s completely safe. No drug is pharmacist completely safe. But just in terms of published data, right, probably still an exaggeration, but still it gives you it gives you a comparison.
1:00:071 hour, 7 secondsSerious harm rate for traditional vaccines, 1 to two per million. All right. [snorts]
1:00:111 hour, 11 secondsPeople aren’t very people aren’t very smart, though. including me when it comes to when I hear the word vaccine I think all vaccines you think we don’t
1:00:181 hour, 18 secondsknow what a vaccine is so it’s just a word it’s like if you said to me dogs are savaging one in 800 people you know
1:00:271 hour, 27 secondsthe average person isn’t might not [laughter] the average person might not think if that’s a chihuahua or like a German shepherd we just heard dogs and then there’s going to be a fear of dogs
1:00:351 hour, 35 secondsand I think the same with the vaccines we don’t know the difference between different vaccines we just think they’re all the same so if you tell me that vaccines are causing x y and zed I’m
1:00:421 hour, 42 secondsgoing to go I don’t Yeah. If someone offers me a flu shot or whatever thing or whatever, it’s the trust that’s been eroded in the system and it’s my trust in the word vaccine that’s been eroded.
1:00:511 hour, 51 secondsYeah. No. And it’s it’s unfortunate.
1:00:521 hour, 52 secondsIt’s unfortunate that that that has definitely showed. There has been a dent and a change I think an uptake of things like MMR because of this.
1:01:001 hour, 1 minuteIt saved my life when I was a kid. I got my all my family got malaria. We were in Africa so they all got pretty bad malaria and uh
1:01:071 hour, 1 minute, 7 secondsso we yeah my pretty pretty serious as well. I think I almost died of uh malaria I hear from my mother.
1:01:131 hour, 1 minute, 13 secondsSteve the thing is with doial vaccines they went through many many years of safety checks right and this is an important thing people I think we
1:01:211 hour, 1 minute, 21 secondsshouldn’t underestimate people’s intelligence and their ability to understand and forgive as long as we communicate it in the right way. I have
1:01:301 hour, 1 minute, 30 secondsthese conversations all the time with my patients. You know I give them numbers.
1:01:331 hour, 1 minute, 33 secondsI talk through it. When I talk about statin drugs for example I say I’m going to give you these numbers but there are lots of caveats here. one the data has never been independently verified right
1:01:411 hour, 1 minute, 41 secondsand I give them all this and I give them alternatives etc I do this all the time and patients want that they want more information in a way that they can understand and of course yes they want
1:01:501 hour, 1 minute, 50 secondsto trust their doctor but again it’s all it comes down to ethics values intent and doctors not admitting their mistakes
1:01:571 hour, 1 minute, 57 secondsis a very very bad place to be the chair of the clinical cardiology at the University of Edinburgh professor Mark Dwek commented that um on your
1:02:051 hour, 2 minutes, 5 secondsopinion saying the co vaccines the co vaccine opinions you are misguided and in fact dangerous. The vast majority of cardiologists do not agree with your
1:02:131 hour, 2 minutes, 13 secondsviews and they are not based on robust science. Now, if you’re someone listening to this now, I’ve got your opinion and I’ve got this guy’s opinion,
1:02:221 hour, 2 minutes, 22 secondsthe chair of the clinical cardiology at the University of Edinburgh. I’ve got the NHS saying that vaccines are safe and extensively reviewed in both adults
1:02:291 hour, 2 minutes, 29 secondsand children and that the independent medicines and health care products regulatory agency is continually monitoring the safety of COVID vaccines
1:02:371 hour, 2 minutes, 37 secondsand reports of side effects are very rare. And then I’ve got your view. How do I as someone that’s hearing this in this year and this in this year figure
1:02:451 hour, 2 minutes, 45 secondsout what to believe because everyone’s so compelling. Everyone’s got data.
Chapter 21: How do we know who’s telling the truth?
1:02:511 hour, 2 minutes, 51 secondsWell, you just ultimately got to go with your own intuition. Steve, who my intuition is always going to side with fear because I’m a human being.
1:02:571 hour, 2 minutes, 57 secondsMay maybe and and this stuff works. Um I’ll come on to this and this was a bit of a hatchet job by the Guardian.
1:03:021 hour, 3 minutes, 2 secondsInterestingly, I’ve written 19 opeds for the Guardian Observer newspaper over the years, but you know how these how this journalism works. They’ll they’ll move
1:03:101 hour, 3 minutes, 10 secondson. Um a couple of things just couple of facts to throw back at you first and then what you’ve raised is really interesting historically and something that I’ve learned from this sort of
1:03:181 hour, 3 minutes, 18 secondsbacklash. um Mark Dwek with the greatest respect to him uh what wasn’t disclosed in the article is that he has taken
1:03:251 hour, 3 minutes, 25 secondsmoney from FISA he’s he’s he’s you know been funded by FISA and that’s factual you can look that up right that’s one thing so that’s a bias um the more
1:03:331 hour, 3 minutes, 33 secondsimportant than that the MH which was described as independent right yes is not the British medical journal BMJ did
1:03:421 hour, 3 minutes, 42 secondsan investigation published um in the summer of 2022 and I presented this data uh on the on the on
1:03:491 hour, 3 minutes, 49 secondsthe MH at the British Medical Association annual conference where the president of the BMA was there, the chair of the BMA was there, right? And
1:03:561 hour, 3 minutes, 56 secondsthey were gobsmacked and they didn’t they couldn’t believe and this is why this information is so important, these facts so important. The MA even I was
1:04:041 hour, 4 minutes, 4 secondsshocked when I read this our medical regulator in this country MH gets 86% of its funding from big farmer which is a huge bias. So they’re not independent.
1:04:131 hour, 4 minutes, 13 secondsSo those are those are the two facts that should at least if I threw that back you say hold on a minute then should I believe all this now what was the purpose of that article of course it
1:04:211 hour, 4 minutes, 21 secondswas to undermine my credibility I’m exposing essentially something you know it for all intents and purposes pretty horrific you know reluctantly on the BBC
1:04:301 hour, 4 minutes, 30 secondswith 25 million views or whatever else right um but people that inspire me have been through far worse right and and I’m
1:04:371 hour, 4 minutes, 37 secondsan activist that want to expose injustices right the likes of Mandela Gandhi Martin Luther One of the lessons from them and even in
1:04:451 hour, 4 minutes, 45 secondspublic health advocacy as soon as your work threatens an industry or an ideological cabal you will be attacked sometimes unrelentingly and viciously and that was really a hatchet job.
1:04:541 hour, 4 minutes, 54 secondsCan I what about the the second part of the quote that where he says that the vast majority of cardiologists do not agree with your views?
1:05:011 hour, 5 minutes, 1 secondUm is that true in your opinion? He’s giving his opinion, but actually um from every okay every cardiologist I spoke to
1:05:091 hour, 5 minutes, 9 secondshas basically said you’re going to do doing great work but they won’t speak out and this is part of the problem right is that people are turning a blind
1:05:161 hour, 5 minutes, 16 secondseye. I had uh one cardiologist um who met me in the street right these are I have this happens all the time and he
1:05:251 hour, 5 minutes, 25 secondssaid I read your paper he said I can tell you now although they won’t admit it publicly all the cardiologists in our department and they know you and they
1:05:331 hour, 5 minutes, 33 secondsand they they trust where you come from and your integrity none of them are having any more COVID vaccines because of you they’re on to it but Steve this
1:05:411 hour, 5 minutes, 41 secondsis a problem only a small minority of people are willing to speak out I have a platform where I’m able to articulate it and and do so. But that is my duty and
1:05:481 hour, 5 minutes, 48 secondsresponsibility. This is just a reflection of uh what is ultimately a big farmer tyranny. You know, I know you’ve interviewed Jordan Peterson, who
1:05:571 hour, 5 minutes, 57 secondsI um admire greatly. Uh and and Jordan Peterson says when you have something to say, silence is a lie. [snorts] And you
1:06:051 hour, 6 minutes, 5 secondsknow, tyranny tyranny emerges when people are afraid to say what they think. And when everybody essentially lies all the time by being silent,
1:06:141 hour, 6 minutes, 14 secondsthat’s when the tyranny is complete.
1:06:161 hour, 6 minutes, 16 secondsThis is exactly where we are. But I do want to mention something if you don’t if you don’t mind like I have to go through this right myself and it’s not
1:06:241 hour, 6 minutes, 24 secondseasy right you get all this stuff and people checking credibility and I remember when that that that Guardian hit piece which was like the you know the top story that day I actually felt
1:06:331 hour, 6 minutes, 33 secondsin many way feelings but I felt ah over the target here right because Gandhi said first they ignore you then they
1:06:401 hour, 6 minutes, 40 secondslaugh at you then they fight you then you win. So the point is these things work Steve but you know the truth is the
1:06:491 hour, 6 minutes, 49 secondstruth. So what is the reality then of your of your life going through that? Because you know if you get attacked from all angles, you’ve not got immediate family
1:06:571 hour, 6 minutes, 57 secondsthere, you’re you’re reading stuff about yourself online all the time, your colleagues, etc. are turning on you.
1:07:021 hour, 7 minutes, 2 secondsWhat what’s life like in if I’m a fly on the wall in those hard moments? Um very deep pain
1:07:111 hour, 7 minutes, 11 secondson to to to have the knowledge and deep an understanding that in my view we are
1:07:211 hour, 7 minutes, 21 secondsdealing with one of the greatest likely corporate crimes, medical mistakes,
1:07:271 hour, 7 minutes, 27 secondsdamage to people’s health. People are suffering, people are dying, people have got all sorts of problems because of this vaccine. to have that deep
1:07:341 hour, 7 minutes, 34 secondsknowledge and understanding and to not be able to see any great progress or
Chapter 22: What is it like to be attacked constantly?
1:07:411 hour, 7 minutes, 41 secondsenough progress for this to be resolved or to be improved. That suffering around me gives me very deep pain more than anything else.
1:07:521 hour, 7 minutes, 52 secondsWhy?
1:07:541 hour, 7 minutes, 54 secondsI think inherently I’m just very sensitive to that around me. That’s just the way I am. I think it’s part of my innate nature. I’ve always been like
1:08:011 hour, 8 minutes, 1 secondthat. You know, I had a I went for um you know, on the positive side, there are a lot of good friends around. You know, I haven’t got immediate emotional
1:08:091 hour, 8 minutes, 9 secondssupport, if that makes sense, right where I am, but there are hundreds of thousands of people that support me certainly who follow me on Twitter and I people come and meet me in the street. I
1:08:181 hour, 8 minutes, 18 secondsrandomly bumped into this doctor in the street who I didn’t know, an older doctor quite well known. I won’t name him. Um and he said he he got really
1:08:261 hour, 8 minutes, 26 secondsemotional in the street and he met me and he said, “Dr. Satra, thank you for everything you are doing with all of this. And I said, well, you know, I I tried to be as humble with it. I said,
1:08:351 hour, 8 minutes, 35 secondsI’m just a medium for a message. I’m doing the right thing. He said, no, what you’re doing is extremely brave and I’m with you 100% and I know the vaccine killed one of my colleagues, etc., etc.
1:08:421 hour, 8 minutes, 42 secondsAnd he was very honest. He said, I’m just too frightened to speak up,
1:08:451 hour, 8 minutes, 45 seconds[snorts]
1:08:451 hour, 8 minutes, 45 secondsbut that gives me fuel, right? And this this happens constantly. So, I think there is definitely something that I get from that. So let me summarize your
1:08:531 hour, 8 minutes, 53 secondsposition then because I want to move on to I want to talk about statins and heart disease and particularly high cholesterol because I got told by my doctor I have high high cholesterol. To
1:09:001 hour, 9 minutessummarize your position is you believe that vaccines themselves are net good for the world.
1:09:091 hour, 9 minutes, 9 secondsSome of the greatest achievements in medicine are traditional vaccines. No doubt. You believe that the COVID vaccine at the start when administered
1:09:161 hour, 9 minutes, 16 secondsto certain age groups that were most vulnerable there’s an argument to say that it was it was a net positive.
1:09:221 hour, 9 minutes, 22 secondsYeah, I think there’s an argument and that you believe after sort of 2022 or 2021 when the variant changed to
1:09:321 hour, 9 minutes, 32 secondsanother I think it was called omnicron wasn’t it? Um that at that point it certainly became a net negative. Is that your view? I would think probably earlier Steph and the only reason I say
1:09:401 hour, 9 minutes, 40 secondsthis is anecdotal evidence of course is my dad had a cardiac arrest in the summer of 2021 he was 73 right and he could be considered in a high-risisk
1:09:481 hour, 9 minutes, 48 secondsgroup so I think that if one was to make that case I would say well well it depends what we’re talking about as well
1:09:561 hour, 9 minutes, 56 secondsin terms of COVID yes right the net benefit in terms of COVID and COVID deaths but the problem is what’s the point in preventing someone getting
1:10:041 hour, 10 minutes, 4 secondsCOVID if six months later they’re going to die of a cardiac arrest you see what I mean So we’ve got to look at it in that nuanced way. But yeah, I think there is a case to be made that if
1:10:121 hour, 10 minutes, 12 secondsit was just given to certain high-risisk groups overall there may have been a net benefit at the beginning. But where we are now and where it’s continued and the
1:10:201 hour, 10 minutes, 20 secondsmandates and all the stuff that extended it to many more people taking it and that almost certainly was being fueled by FISA and that’s been shown that they
1:10:281 hour, 10 minutes, 28 secondswere you know giving money to grass credible grassroots organizations in the US to promote the mandates. Right? this
1:10:351 hour, 10 minutes, 35 secondsis after the data they received showing that it wasn’t preventing infection and causing serious harm. Right? So this is this is a problem with the system. I’m not blaming individuals here. This is
1:10:431 hour, 10 minutes, 43 secondssomething we’ll talk about with statins as well is that um the uh the system the corporate capitalist system or the way
1:10:501 hour, 10 minutes, 50 secondscapitalism is is actually being implemented is in its in many ways and
1:10:571 hour, 10 minutes, 57 secondsthis has been diagnosed by a forensic psychologist. uh the the corporation as an institution is psychopathic when it
1:11:051 hour, 11 minutes, 5 secondscomes to making money. That means they have callous unconcern for the safety of others, repeated lying, conning others for profit. And this is unfortunately this is the root of the problem.
1:11:151 hour, 11 minutes, 15 secondsAnd you also believe that there is a chance as well and it’s likely that the impacts of the lifestyle changes, the
1:11:231 hour, 11 minutes, 23 secondslockdowns etc. The stress, the mental health issues, the removing people from being able to see their loved ones, the sedentary lifestyles also contributed to
1:11:311 hour, 11 minutes, 31 secondsthe rise in heart related conditions and heart disease.
1:11:341 hour, 11 minutes, 34 seconds100%. It’s played a role. A smaller role, but it’s played a role 100%.
1:11:381 hour, 11 minutes, 38 secondsSo, I want to talk about heart disease because I don’t even know what heart disease is. And also, I don’t know what a heart attack is. I think we kind of all just assume we know, but what what is a what is a heart what’s heart
1:11:471 hour, 11 minutes, 47 secondsdisease and what’s a heart attack? So heart disease uh the conventional description or explanation of heart
1:11:561 hour, 11 minutes, 56 secondsdisease is disease that affects the blood vessels of the heart essentially.
1:12:021 hour, 12 minutes, 2 secondsOkay, that’s that’s coronary artery disease we call it.
1:12:051 hour, 12 minutes, 5 secondsThat’s what most people when they talk about heart disease that’s what they that’s what they mean. Um so that disease that affects the blood vessels
1:12:131 hour, 12 minutes, 13 secondsleads to buildup of something called plaque uh which is furring if you like.
1:12:191 hour, 12 minutes, 19 secondsOkay. Like a plaque.
1:12:211 hour, 12 minutes, 21 secondsPlaque. Yeah. So plaque is furring of the arteries like a blockage. Okay. Right. A blockage.
1:12:251 hour, 12 minutes, 25 secondsThat blockage is made up of uh cells of the immune system. It’s made up of cholesterol. Right. And over time that
Chapter 23: What causes heart disease?
1:12:341 hour, 12 minutes, 34 secondsthose blockages can either suddenly uh like a pimple building up and the pimple getting bigger and bigger and bigger or
1:12:411 hour, 12 minutes, 41 secondseven a small pimple suddenly bursting and the contents of that plaque, right?
1:12:471 hour, 12 minutes, 47 secondsThe response to um the blood having contact with the contents of that plaque that has built
1:12:551 hour, 12 minutes, 55 secondsup over time suddenly causes a clot to form. And if the clot blocks the whole artery then during the blood supply is completely cut off to the heart muscle.
1:13:051 hour, 13 minutes, 5 secondsSo the the purpose of those blood vessels is to supply the heart muscle with blood so it can contract. So if you
1:13:131 hour, 13 minutes, 13 secondshave a blockage that is there for several minutes completely cutting off the blood supply depending on where it is, it will cause that area of the heart
1:13:221 hour, 13 minutes, 22 secondsmuscle to lose its oxygen supply and nutrients and die and scar and that leads to cell death. But of course the
1:13:301 hour, 13 minutes, 30 secondsheart muscle is quite big. So it could be a very small heart attack, could be a big heart attack. And then so so heart attack specifically is death of any
1:13:371 hour, 13 minutes, 37 secondsregion of the heart muscle because of a blockage.
1:13:411 hour, 13 minutes, 41 secondsOkay, I’m going to try the death of the cells.
1:13:441 hour, 13 minutes, 44 secondsI’m going to try and play this back to you. Yeah,
1:13:451 hour, 13 minutes, 45 secondscorrect me if I’m wrong. So, you get this buildup in your artery. Yeah.
1:13:491 hour, 13 minutes, 49 secondsBut due to a bunch of factors I was talking about, the buildup explodes. Yes.
1:13:551 hour, 13 minutes, 55 secondsFlows through the blood blocking the artery at some point. Yes.
1:13:581 hour, 13 minutes, 58 secondsAnd then that blockage in the artery causes a cell in the heart, some areas in the heart to die because they’re not getting oxygen.
1:14:061 hour, 14 minutes, 6 secondsExactly. So, so you you’re cut you’ve basically cut off the blood supply. So it’s cutting off the blood supply to whatever area because there are many branches. It depends where the blockage is. You cut off the blood supply. If it’s cut off for long enough,
1:14:161 hour, 14 minutes, 16 secondsthose cells, every cell in our body needs oxygen to survive, right? Then that those that part of the heart muscle will die and become scarred.
1:14:231 hour, 14 minutes, 23 secondsSo it dies and becomes scarred in about seven 7 8 minutes. You said it can well it can take you know 15 to 20 minutes. It depends on different factors but within minutes. Yes.
1:14:331 hour, 14 minutes, 33 secondsAnd how does that feel from minute one till minute sort of 10?
1:14:361 hour, 14 minutes, 36 secondsSo the classic symptoms of a heart attack, right? that is a central what we call crushing heaviness or pain that can
1:14:451 hour, 14 minutes, 45 secondstravel radiate we say in medical terms to the neck the jaw it can go into the shoulders um it can go into the back
1:14:531 hour, 14 minutes, 53 secondsthat’s the classic symptoms or down the left arm and you’re conscious at this point yes you’re conscious so a cardiac arrest just means the heart stopping ultimately
1:15:021 hour, 15 minutes, 2 secondsactually we all have a cardiac arrest when we die the last thing to go is our heart right but um one of the most common causes of a cardiac arrest certainly prematurely, not because of
1:15:101 hour, 15 minutes, 10 secondsold age, for example, is um and this is random. So you can have a heart attack and you can be conscious and have pain and you get to hospital and you get
1:15:181 hour, 15 minutes, 18 secondsdiagnosed and you might have a you know a stent put in or you might be put on blood thinners or whatever. Um in a certain proportion of people um and it
1:15:271 hour, 15 minutes, 27 secondsdoesn’t depend on the size of the heart attack. So um you can have a big area of the heart muscle that’s damaged or a small area of the heart muscle that
1:15:341 hour, 15 minutes, 34 secondsdamaged and it’s random that it can cause an interruption in the normal electrical activity of the heart. The heart has electrical circuit that allows
1:15:421 hour, 15 minutes, 42 secondsit to pump. Right? There’s an electrical circuit that allows it to pump in a certain you know in a in a in a regular rhythm. that circuit can get interrupted
1:15:511 hour, 15 minutes, 51 secondsand then the heart muscle that’s pumping like this right because it’s pumping all the blood around your body to your brain everything else suddenly starts
1:15:571 hour, 15 minutes, 57 secondsquivering right uh and that’s known as ventricular fibrillation that’s when you see on all the you know on movies or on TV shows and stuff like
1:16:061 hour, 16 minutes, 6 secondsthat when they start shocking people and that shows on the heart tracing as a kind of squiggle like this okay right and that is what we call a
1:16:131 hour, 16 minutes, 13 secondsshockable rhythm if you deliver a shock you know often 200 jewels right is is delivered with a defibrillator that will
1:16:201 hour, 16 minutes, 20 secondsoften restart the heart into a normal rhythm and then the patient can be managed and treated for example. So that’s but that quivering of the heart causes basically the heart to stop
1:16:291 hour, 16 minutes, 29 secondspumping blood around the body. The heart’s still moving but it’s not enough to pump blood around the body and if that’s going for a very long time Steve not lot long you know for example in my
1:16:381 hour, 16 minutes, 38 secondsdad’s case it may have been similar 20 or 30 minutes then eventually then you know that will even stop and patient dies. So, I’ve read some stats from a different source that said in the UK,
1:16:481 hour, 16 minutes, 48 secondsone in eight men and one in 14 women die from conory heart disease over the course of their lifetime and that nearly
1:16:551 hour, 16 minutes, 55 seconds50% of all US adults have some type of heart disease. Um, and before the pandemic hit in 2019, 12 children died
1:17:021 hour, 17 minutes, 2 secondsevery single week in the UK from cardiac arrest. So, I mean, this is if anything’s going to kill me, it’s probably this.
1:17:101 hour, 17 minutes, 10 secondsYes, most likely. So, how do I stop it? [laughter] Right.
1:17:151 hour, 17 minutes, 15 secondsUm, how do you stop it? How do you even reverse it? How about some statins? Yeah. So, okay,
1:17:201 hour, 17 minutes, 20 secondslet me just say this. My doctor, I got my lab results back like 3 days ago,
1:17:241 hour, 17 minutes, 24 secondsand he told me a couple of things. One thing he told me is, “You got load vitamin D.” I said, “Fine, yeah, get it.
1:17:281 hour, 17 minutes, 28 secondsI’m in a room all day.” Uh, the second thing he said is, “Your cholesterol is high.” He said, “Your bad cholesterol is high.” And I I don’t really know what to
1:17:361 hour, 17 minutes, 36 secondsmake of that, but he said, “Your your bad cholesterol is high, and I need to get that down.”
1:17:411 hour, 17 minutes, 41 secondsUm, my father takes statins, which I know a lot of people take statins. I think it’s like 200 million people are
1:17:481 hour, 17 minutes, 48 secondstaking statins globally. Um, so because I have you here, what do you think of of
1:17:551 hour, 17 minutes, 55 secondswhat the advice I was given, which is just to get my bad cholesterol down and how do I prevent myself ending up on either statins or having a heart attack?
Chapter 24: How to stop heart disease
1:18:041 hour, 18 minutes, 4 secondsOkay. So on the statins issue and the cholesterol issue traditionally Steve
1:18:101 hour, 18 minutes, 10 secondsfor uh decades and even now the one of the the primary focus within medicine
1:18:181 hour, 18 minutes, 18 secondswithin cardiology to combat heart disease was to get your so-called bad cholesterol LDL as low as possible. So LDL means bad cholesterol.
1:18:261 hour, 18 minutes, 26 secondsIt’s called low density lipoprotein which is the bad stuff.
1:18:291 hour, 18 minutes, 29 secondsIt’s so well it’s thought of conventionally as a bad cholesterol.
1:18:331 hour, 18 minutes, 33 secondsRight. And the reason for that is is that earlier studies that were done on
1:18:411 hour, 18 minutes, 41 secondsuh the correlation that was found between high cholesterol and heart disease [snorts]
1:18:451 hour, 18 minutes, 45 secondsum revealed that very high levels of total cholesterol. There was a very high
1:18:521 hour, 18 minutes, 52 secondsum prevalence of heart disease. But those levels of of cholesterol go and we go we’re talking about going back from
1:18:591 hour, 18 minutes, 59 secondsyou know studies that started in 1948 that went over three decades where they they found cholesterol being associated with heart disease was only really there
1:19:081 hour, 19 minutes, 8 secondsat very very high levels. That’s the first thing.
1:19:121 hour, 19 minutes, 12 secondsThe second part of it and why they thought that getting it as low as possible was the solution is that people who had very low levels of cholesterol tended not get heart disease. Right?
1:19:221 hour, 19 minutes, 22 secondsTotal cholesterol less than four, LDL less than two mill moles. Let’s just say that for argument sake, less than 2 mill moles per liter. And by the way, just so
1:19:311 hour, 19 minutes, 31 secondsjust so people understand this, you would have got a red mark probably saying that your LDL cholesterol is high if it’s more now the the guideline suggests if it’s more than three mill
1:19:391 hour, 19 minutes, 39 secondsmoles per liter in your blood. The measurement that is considered high, but we we we’ll we’ll tear that we’ll tease that apart in a second. Now the thinking
1:19:471 hour, 19 minutes, 47 secondswas that okay if people with low cholesterol are not getting heart disease and people with very high levels of cholesterol are getting heart disease
1:19:551 hour, 19 minutes, 55 secondsand that was total cholesterol above 10 for example right and LDL’s above seven or eight massively high right then or or
1:20:031 hour, 20 minutes, 3 secondsor more likely to get heart disease at significant numbers uh the thinking was that the lower the better so all these drug
1:20:111 hour, 20 minutes, 11 secondstrials started but there’s one thing missing first and foremost most is that most people’s cholesterol Steve LDL is genetic.
1:20:201 hour, 20 minutes, 20 seconds80% of your cholesterol because cholesterol is a very So why have we got it? It’s a very vital molecule in the body. It’s without cholesterol we would die. It’s required for maintaining the integrity of cells and cell membranes.
1:20:311 hour, 20 minutes, 31 secondsIt’s required for hormone production,
1:20:331 hour, 20 minutes, 33 secondsright? It has a role in the immune system. So it’s really important vital molecule in the body. You can change the profile of the cholesterol. There are
1:20:401 hour, 20 minutes, 40 secondsdifferent components. There’s something called triglycerides which is a blood fat and HDL so called good cholesterol and LDL through dietary changes but
1:20:481 hour, 20 minutes, 48 secondspredominantly it’s genetic initially right so this is a thing so that does that so so one could then question maybe
1:20:561 hour, 20 minutes, 56 secondsthose people in those original studies had genetically high cholesterol but that doesn’t mean the cholesterol was the problem there may been something
1:21:041 hour, 21 minutes, 4 secondselse that hadn’t been measured that we hadn’t discovered yet that was genetic that was causing the heart disease but it happened to also beausing causing a
1:21:111 hour, 21 minutes, 11 secondsraised LDL. At the same time, people with low cholesterol, they may have had something else, right? They may have had other factors that we now know actually
1:21:201 hour, 21 minutes, 20 secondsare linked to heart disease and it’s something to do with the cholesterol. So that’s the first thing. The next question is um does lowering cholesterol? So the question to you is does lowering your LDL make any
1:21:281 hour, 21 minutes, 28 secondsdifference? And for many many years there was a mantra that was pushed by the medical establishment that there was
1:21:361 hour, 21 minutes, 36 secondsa linear relationship. The lower your LDL, the less likely you are to get heart disease. In fact, there was a a a commentary written by one of America’s most well-known eminent cardiologists.
1:21:461 hour, 21 minutes, 46 secondsHe was the editor of the American Journal of Cardiology. His name was William Roberts. And he wrote an article in 2011 to try and push the cholesterol
1:21:541 hour, 21 minutes, 54 secondsmessage further. So more people, most more people take cholesterol drug statins. And it was called it’s the cholesterol stupid. And there’s a line
1:22:011 hour, 22 minutes, 1 secondin that which I mentioned in my book where he said you can be an obese diabetic sedentary smoker
1:22:111 hour, 22 minutes, 11 secondsbut as long as your cholesterol is low enough in other words total LDL cholesterol you will not develop heart disease. Think about that for a second. Now I’m just putting that to you Steve.
1:22:191 hour, 22 minutes, 19 secondsNow you hearing that what is does that sound plausible to you? No.
1:22:231 hour, 22 minutes, 23 secondsRight. It doesn’t does it. It sounds a bit strange doesn’t it? Right. And I thought this is odd.
1:22:291 hour, 22 minutes, 29 secondsI started looking into this in a lot of detail probably 2010 partly because by the end of the by by the late 90s the
1:22:371 hour, 22 minutes, 37 secondspeople who had discovered the relationship with very high LDL cholesterol which is actually by the way genetically linked to a condition called
1:22:451 hour, 22 minutes, 45 secondsfamilial hyper lipidmia affects one in 250 people right people’s cholesterol is skyhigh um those people who got the Nobel prize
1:22:541 hour, 22 minutes, 54 secondsfor this discovery said they predicted the almost the eradication of heart disease in the world by the early 2000s
1:23:021 hour, 23 minutes, 2 secondsbecause we had discovered these drugs called statin drugs that lower cholesterol and are shown through clinical trials to prevent heart attacks
1:23:091 hour, 23 minutes, 9 secondsand strokes and death which we’ll come on to. Right? So you’ve got the combination of that. But before statins came onto the market and have been prescribed now to 200 million people,
1:23:191 hour, 23 minutes, 19 secondsone of the things that isn’t talked about enough is that there were lots of trials done. So you’ve got this hypothesis now. We think we’re right here. We’ve discovered that very high
1:23:271 hour, 23 minutes, 27 secondscholesterol in the population has got a strong link to heart disease. And we’ve discovered that very low cholesterol doesn’t give heart disease. But by the way, what’s interesting is for 95% of
1:23:361 hour, 23 minutes, 36 secondsthe population in the middle, there was no relationship with who was going to develop heart disease and who wasn’t depending on the based upon their cholesterol. Okay. But they thought,
1:23:461 hour, 23 minutes, 46 secondslet’s develop these drugs to lower cholesterol and we prevent heart attack.
1:23:481 hour, 23 minutes, 48 secondsSo all the drug trials, Steve, before statins came on the market did not show any benefit. So, you’ve got the trial where you’ve got someone with high cholesterol and and another person with
1:23:561 hour, 23 minutes, 56 secondshigh cholesterol. One person gets a drug, the other person doesn’t. You follow them up. The person on the drug massively lowers the cholesterol. No prevention heart attacks over several years. Like, hold on. What’s going on here? Maybe we did the trial wrong.
1:24:061 hour, 24 minutes, 6 secondsLet’s try again. Let’s try again. Let’s try again. Statins are produced. Okay. A different type of cholesterol-lowering drug. And suddenly you start seeing
1:24:151 hour, 24 minutes, 15 secondsbenefits. Hearts. Oh, great. We’ve solved it. Then we can make this case that the lower cholesterol are better.
1:24:211 hour, 24 minutes, 21 secondsTwo problems with that. The first one is that statins actually have other properties other than lowering LDL cholesterol.
1:24:301 hour, 24 minutes, 30 secondsThey are also anti-inflammatory and they have anti- clotting properties.
1:24:351 hour, 24 minutes, 35 secondsWhat’s accepted now is we know heart disease is a problem is a a is a clotting problem linked to chronic inflammation. So it means the benefit of
1:24:431 hour, 24 minutes, 43 secondsstatins which I will give you in a second, right? is probably more likely because of those properties because other studies when we did other drugs on cholesterol there was no benefit. Does that make sense? Am I making sense now?
1:24:531 hour, 24 minutes, 53 secondsYeah. So it’s targeting the inflammation and the clotting.
1:24:551 hour, 24 minutes, 55 secondsExactly. So the question then is what is the benefit of statins? So the first thing to say and this is where the controversy has happened um is that what
1:25:051 hour, 25 minutes, 5 secondsI’m about to tell you is again based upon drug industry sponsored trials where the raw data on those trials with
Chapter 25: The shocking truth about statins
1:25:131 hour, 25 minutes, 13 secondsthe benefits I’m going to tell you has never been independently verified. So what I say to patients and I’ll say this to you is what I’m about to tell you is
1:25:201 hour, 25 minutes, 20 secondslikely in my opinion an exaggerated benefit but it’s still a benefit. I’m going to tell you if we trust the drug companies completely, this is a benefit
1:25:291 hour, 25 minutes, 29 secondsyou’re going to get. Steve, if you’ve not had a heart attack, forget about high cholesterol for a second, right?
1:25:331 hour, 25 minutes, 33 secondsThis applies to everybody. If you’ve not had a heart attack or you have not been diagnosed with severe blockages, right? You’ve not got
1:25:411 hour, 25 minutes, 41 secondsthat, right? And you would you would know if you did because you’d get symptoms of chest pain doing exercise.
1:25:461 hour, 25 minutes, 46 secondsThen the benefit of a statin for you over a fiveyear period at best is one in 100 in preventing you having a nonfatal
1:25:551 hour, 25 minutes, 55 secondsheart attack, a nondisabling stroke but will not prolong your life by one day.
1:26:011 hour, 26 minutes, 1 secondSo that’s the first thing. Now when you do studies where you give patient that information in that transparent way more
1:26:091 hour, 26 minutes, 9 secondsthan twothirds of them most of them will and I my experience as well say doc those odds don’t sound great I want to prevent heart disease but I don’t fancy taking and this is before by the way
1:26:161 hour, 26 minutes, 16 secondswe’ve talked about side effects where the controversy has happened which I’ve been heavily involved in is in my experience with with patients and also
1:26:251 hour, 26 minutes, 25 secondsother data that’s out there a large proportion of patients will suffer quality let me be clear Here it’s not
1:26:321 hour, 26 minutes, 32 secondsabout serious, right? Quality of life limiting side effects, right? That means most commonly fatigue, muscle pain, can be erectile dysfunction, sleep
1:26:411 hour, 26 minutes, 41 secondsdisturbance, but stuff that makes you don’t feel you don’t feel good like this is not a good way to live.
1:26:451 hour, 26 minutes, 45 seconds[snorts and gasps] The good news is it’s reversible usually within a couple weeks of stopping the statin or reducing the dose. Okay. So that controversy uh led
1:26:531 hour, 26 minutes, 53 secondsto me publishing an article in the British Medical Journal in 2013 where me and another and a Harvard doctor in a separate article said we we believe that the side effect rate is probably in the
1:27:021 hour, 27 minutes, 2 secondsorder of one in five people 20 20% which is quite high of those sorts of side effects right [snorts] and that caused a bit of backlash because the group of
1:27:111 hour, 27 minutes, 11 secondsresearchers in Oxford who take money from big farmer who write the guidelines around the world said this is going to scare people stop them taking statins
1:27:181 hour, 27 minutes, 18 secondsand people will die but that for the low-risisk people, no one’s going to die because there’s no benefit in mortality.
1:27:251 hour, 27 minutes, 25 secondsNow, for high-risisk people, those are people who have had a heart attack.
1:27:291 hour, 27 minutes, 29 secondsUm, the benefit of a statin is is better, Steve. Okay. So, let’s say, for example, some patient comes in, they’ve had a heart attack, and I’m telling them the benefit of the statin if they take
1:27:381 hour, 27 minutes, 38 secondsit religiously every day for five uh five years because that’s how long the trials last where you can give them that information. The benefit of preventing a
1:27:461 hour, 27 minutes, 46 secondsfurther heart attack is 1 in 39, about 2.5%. 1 in 39 and the benefit in prolonging their life is 1 in 83.
1:27:561 hour, 27 minutes, 56 secondsRight? There’s another way of looking at the stats though based upon again industry sponsored trials all of the trials that have been done on statins
1:28:051 hour, 28 minutes, 5 secondsand people might ask a question. They don’t often ask this but they may ask the question how much longer am I going to live?
1:28:111 hour, 28 minutes, 11 secondsRight? Like okay let’s just throw this question to you. Say you’ve had a heart attack. You survived a heart attack.
1:28:171 hour, 28 minutes, 17 secondsdoctor says take this drug and and over a fiveyear period, how much extra life
1:28:241 hour, 28 minutes, 24 secondsex life life extension would you hope or hope it would add over that five years?
1:28:271 hour, 28 minutes, 27 secondsYou can, you know, you can do it over whatever 20 years, but just say 5 years to start with. How much longer would you hope to live from taking that statin?
1:28:341 hour, 28 minutes, 34 secondsOkay, so over five years then I’d say um maybe a year. Okay. 25% more.
1:28:391 hour, 28 minutes, 39 secondsOkay, fine. That sounds that sounds pretty good. 20% more. Yeah. Okay.
1:28:431 hour, 28 minutes, 43 secondsUm the actual figure not disputed from industry sponsored trials right 4.2 two days, just over four days.
1:28:521 hour, 28 minutes, 52 secondsIs that because they haven’t done it over a long enough period of time?
1:28:551 hour, 28 minutes, 55 secondsNo. I mean, and then if you then extrapolate it out, if you presume the benefits are going to keep going on, you could then argue, well, over 10 years it’ll be 8 days and over 20 years it’ll
1:29:041 hour, 29 minutes, 4 secondsbe 16 days or whatever, right? So, so that’s the information. So, this the reason I’m I’m I’m telling you this,
1:29:101 hour, 29 minutes, 10 secondsSteve, is that this information is important. I’m not just a doctor. I’m a potential patient. I ask myself, what would I want to know,
1:29:181 hour, 29 minutes, 18 secondsright? I am here to try and improve my quality of life and my health. What is important to me? What is important to patients? This information is important
1:29:261 hour, 29 minutes, 26 secondsespecially Steve because it’s not that I’m saying don’t take statins. A lot of people will say okay I’ll take the drug right and if they don’t get side effects why not you know it might be a bit of a
1:29:331 hour, 29 minutes, 33 secondslottery but why not take the drug and the people say that to me and that’s fine and if they get side effects but the thing that’s missing Steve is and this is where we come on to the question you asked me about how to prevent heart
1:29:421 hour, 29 minutes, 42 secondsdisease. Is there an alternative that doesn’t give me side effects, improves my quality of life, and likely is going
1:29:491 hour, 29 minutes, 49 secondsto help prevent stop me getting heart disease? So, what is that? Lifestyle changes.
1:29:551 hour, 29 minutes, 55 secondsAbsolutely. So, 80% of heart disease is linked to environment and lifestyle.
1:30:011 hour, 30 minutes, 1 secondOkay. So what is the the core most important biological phenomenon in the body that leads to heart disease which
1:30:101 hour, 30 minutes, 10 secondsis not disputed but doesn’t get it doesn’t get much of a um there’s no market for the message because there is no you can’t commodify this this is an
1:30:181 hour, 30 minutes, 18 secondsinteresting thing right so but it’s it’s really important information it’s called insulin resistance insulin is a very important hormone in the body released
1:30:251 hour, 30 minutes, 25 secondsby the pancreas helps maintain blood glucose within certain ranges so our cells can function optimally all Right?
1:30:321 hour, 30 minutes, 32 secondsOver time, if your insulin is chronically raised too high or if your cells become resistant to them for
1:30:401 hour, 30 minutes, 40 secondswhatever reason, that is the most important driver of the development of these so-called plaques, these furring, these blockages in the arteries.
1:30:471 hour, 30 minutes, 47 seconds[snorts]
1:30:481 hour, 30 minutes, 48 secondsSo, what causes insulin resistance and how can you combat it or how, you know, how can you prevent and and potentially, you know, stabilize and even reverse?
1:30:551 hour, 30 minutes, 55 secondsWe’ll go on to reversal as well because that’s a fascinating area. [gasps]
1:31:001 hour, 31 minutesmost important components diet. Okay, I would say in big figure
1:31:071 hour, 31 minutes, 7 secondsterms now probably 50% of heart disease around the world can be linked to poor diet.
1:31:161 hour, 31 minutes, 16 secondsOkay, so let’s start with diet then.
1:31:171 hour, 31 minutes, 17 secondsI’ve actually got a bag of sugar that I’ve brought with me because um when I think about insulin glucose bad diet,
1:31:241 hour, 31 minutes, 24 secondsthe first thing my my brain thinks about is sugar. So, I’ve got this bag of sugar here that I brought with me. Um, and I’ve got two Look at us. We’ve we’ve
1:31:331 hour, 31 minutes, 33 secondswritten sugar on it and covered up the brand because they didn’t pay us. But,
1:31:361 hour, 31 minutes, 36 secondsif there is a sugar brand that would like to do a brand deal, please get in touch. [laughter] We’re big fans if we need to be. Um,
1:31:421 hour, 31 minutes, 42 secondswhat I actually would like you to to show me is how much sugar do I need to function and to be healthy.
1:31:501 hour, 31 minutes, 50 secondsOkay. The amount of sugar that you need to function and be healthy is zero.
1:31:541 hour, 31 minutes, 54 secondsThere is no nutritional requirement whatsoever of of of this what we call added sugar or table sugar. None at all.
1:32:031 hour, 32 minutes, 3 secondsSo I don’t need any.
1:32:041 hour, 32 minutes, 4 secondsYou don’t need any. And the reason for that is very briefly our bodies need glucose to survive. But you don’t need any dietary source of glucose to
Chapter 26: The average amount of sugar consumed
1:32:121 hour, 32 minutes, 12 secondssurvive. Right? Because your people go on what we call ketogenic diets and they literally eliminate all starch as well which also contains glucose um from
1:32:211 hour, 32 minutes, 21 secondstheir diet. Your body will make it itself from fat and protein. So in terms of diet, there is no value from sugar
1:32:281 hour, 32 minutes, 28 secondswhatsoever. It can give you energy of course, yes, but you can get energy from other things, but there’s no nutritional value whatsoever. Zero. So from a from a
1:32:361 hour, 32 minutes, 36 secondshealth perspective, there is zero requirement for dietary sugar.
1:32:411 hour, 32 minutes, 41 secondsSo when we say that Americans are consuming a lot of sugar every day, are we talking about added sugar? Yeah,
1:32:461 hour, 32 minutes, 46 secondswe’re talking about so the way that so the World Health Organization now um after I was involved in this
1:32:541 hour, 32 minutes, 54 secondscampaign, you know, and there was a lot of attention on it, they revise their guidelines. So they recommend a maximum limit for the average adult of actually
1:33:021 hour, 33 minutes, 2 secondssix teaspoons of either um so maximum limit, okay, which you don’t need it,
1:33:061 hour, 33 minutes, 6 secondsbut maximum limit because after that that’s when the health consequences start to accumulate. One, two,
1:33:151 hour, 33 minutes, 15 seconds3, 4, 5,
1:33:231 hour, 33 minutes, 23 secondssix.
1:33:241 hour, 33 minutes, 24 secondsOkay. So, that’s the maximum daily limit.
1:33:261 hour, 33 minutes, 26 secondsMaximum daily limit. Okay. But just to give you an example, that’s not let’s so one sugary drink, we don’t name any
1:33:341 hour, 33 minutes, 34 secondsbrands, right? You would have to would often a 330 mil let’s say the most famous sugary drink uh in the world I have no idea who you’re talking about
1:33:411 hour, 33 minutes, 41 secondswould have nine teaspoons on top nine spoons in one of those right and that’s just in the 330 mil imagine going to the cinema and having half a liter whatever
1:33:491 hour, 33 minutes, 49 secondselse right Jesus so one can of beep um has nine teaspoons of sugar in it which is
1:33:561 hour, 33 minutes, 56 secondswhich is so four yeah absolutely so four grams is one teaspoon okay which is well above the daily recommended daily maximum one chocolate bar.
1:34:061 hour, 34 minutes, 6 secondsYeah.
1:34:061 hour, 34 minutes, 6 secondsLike a standard size chocolate bar. What we grew up with about the same. Leave leave chocolate out of it.
1:34:111 hour, 34 minutes, 11 secondsRight. [laughter] Well, listen, you know, dark chocolate. I love chocolate, right? Have you know um for children,
1:34:171 hour, 34 minutes, 17 secondsthe US Department of Agriculture, for the average 4 to 8year-old child, think about kids as well. They’re the most vulnerable to a lot of this pro these problems of sugar. They recommend a maximum limit of three teaspoons.
1:34:291 hour, 34 minutes, 29 secondsYeah. Now the average person in this country in America is consuming at least 20 teaspoons. Now when we talk about
1:34:371 hour, 34 minutes, 37 secondssugar we’re talking about world health they they the word they use is free sugars. So it means this sort of sugar added right to foods. Um but it also includes fruit juice,
1:34:471 hour, 34 minutes, 47 secondshoney and syrups.
1:34:501 hour, 34 minutes, 50 secondssame effect on your body. The that I fruit, whole fruit is fine, but if you think about it, um a glass of orange
1:34:581 hour, 34 minutes, 58 secondsjuice, for example, would usually have the uh the juice of six oranges. Okay?
1:35:051 hour, 35 minutes, 5 secondsYou couldn’t eat six oranges that easily. You’d have one orange, for example. And there’s fiber, and the fiber does has a counteracting effect on
1:35:121 hour, 35 minutes, 12 secondsterms of the way that the um the glucose and fructose is affected absorbed in your body. A lot of it’s to do with the rapid increase in the bloodstream of
1:35:201 hour, 35 minutes, 20 secondsblood glucose and and that causes huge spikes in insulin. And the problem with that over time, of course, is you get
1:35:281 hour, 35 minutes, 28 secondschronically raised insulin and heart disease. But also, interestingly, the more rapidly you have a food that causes a glucose spike, the more quickly you’re
1:35:351 hour, 35 minutes, 35 secondsgoing to get a crash because insulin goes up quite quickly and it causes to come down and it drives hunger. Yeah.
1:35:401 hour, 35 minutes, 40 secondsSo, that’s another problem. So, the food industry, I think, knew for a long time.
1:35:441 hour, 35 minutes, 44 secondsThat’s why you know in America and it may be similar here 70% of foods purchased in supermarket in America will have added sugar because they knew that
1:35:521 hour, 35 minutes, 52 secondsit increases the palatability and the consumption. Of course they’re there to sell food not look after your health.
1:35:571 hour, 35 minutes, 57 secondsSo you said 20 teaspoons is the average for an American. At least 20 is probably much higher.
1:36:021 hour, 36 minutes, 2 secondsI’m going to have I’m going to have to ask you to show us that. Yeah.
1:36:051 hour, 36 minutes, 5 secondsSo I can see what that looks like in a glass.
1:36:071 hour, 36 minutes, 7 secondsIt’s disgusting. That’s disgusting when you see it like that. And you don’t you don’t realize that you’re having that much sugar in a day. But I mean,
1:36:161 hour, 36 minutes, 16 secondstechnically that’s what two cans of fizzy drink.
1:36:201 hour, 36 minutes, 20 secondsYeah. Yeah. But the thing is a lot of the sugar that’s being consumed are in foods that people wouldn’t think have sugar in them. They’re not the usual
1:36:271 hour, 36 minutes, 27 secondsjunk food, your cakes and biscuits and whatever else, you know. Um they’re in things even marketed as being healthy. Low-fat foods, etc., low-fat yogurts.
1:36:361 hour, 36 minutes, 36 secondsSo, could you just summarize what we have here then? These two glasses.
1:36:391 hour, 36 minutes, 39 secondsYeah. So this is the maximum daily recommended limit by the World Health Organization of sugar consumption after which you then start to see increases
1:36:481 hour, 36 minutes, 48 secondsrisks of disease. Um and this is what at least I think what most people are consuming at the moment.
1:36:591 hour, 36 minutes, 59 secondsAre you hopeful that there’s something we can do about this [snorts] at a society level? Well, I think one important step was the fact that we in,
1:37:061 hour, 37 minutes, 6 secondsyou know, this levy on sugary drinks definitely would have some um impact partly based upon what we learned from big tobacco. You know, Steve, you know,
1:37:161 hour, 37 minutes, 16 seconds50% of it’s interesting, crazy when you think about it now. In 1970, 50% of adults in the UK were smokers, right?
1:37:241 hour, 37 minutes, 24 secondsWe’ve got that down to about 17% now,
1:37:261 hour, 37 minutes, 26 secondsbut massive reduction, right? And it happened. Education was important, but the real the real intervention that had
1:37:341 hour, 37 minutes, 34 secondsmore um impact than anything else was actually taxation of cigarettes. And it
1:37:411 hour, 37 minutes, 41 secondshad twofold effect. Of course, you make it a little bit more expensive. You know, you know this with your business background, right? It’s going to reduce the the consumption, but it was a way of
Chapter 27: Are you hopeful we can overcome our sugar addictions?
1:37:491 hour, 37 minutes, 49 secondsalso increasing awareness that this is harmful. So, I think that the sugar stuff is ongoing and I think a lot of people have awareness on it. I think now
1:37:581 hour, 37 minutes, 58 secondswhich is linked to sugar the and I’ve written about this we need to treat ultrarocessed food which a lot of the
1:38:051 hour, 38 minutes, 5 secondsultrarocessed food has added sugar as the new tobacco right this is more than 50% of the calories in the UK and more than 60% of
1:38:131 hour, 38 minutes, 13 secondsthe calories in the US is of people’s daily consumption is coming from ultrarocessed foods essentially
1:38:191 hour, 38 minutes, 19 secondsdescribed as if it comes out of a packet industrially produced and you can read more than five ingredients usually with
1:38:271 hour, 38 minutes, 27 secondsadditives and preservatives, it’s ultrarocessed and best avoided. And all of the research that’s been done only points in one direction. And I think
1:38:341 hour, 38 minutes, 34 secondsthere are at least 32 different conditions or diseases now that are associated with the consumption of ultrarocessed food. That is the major issue. So because this is a predominantly an environmental problem,
1:38:451 hour, 38 minutes, 45 secondsright? Our our our food our food environment is saturated with this stuff. Even hospitals, Steve, I mean I the first campaign I got involved with is trying to get this stuff out of
Chapter 28: Ultra-processed foods need to be treated like the new tobacco
1:38:521 hour, 38 minutes, 52 secondshospital. I was like, hold on. We’re treating patients with obesity related conditions, yet we’re serving them junk food in hospitals. The staff, 50% of NHS staff are overweight or obese.
1:39:001 hour, 39 minutesWhat’s the probability that if I’m, cuz I want to talk about ultressed foods as well as the shoes, what’s the probability that if I’m having that much
1:39:071 hour, 39 minutes, 7 secondssugar a day, the big glass, that I’m going to end up in your practice with some kind of heart disease.
1:39:141 hour, 39 minutes, 14 secondsI I wouldn’t be able to give you a figure, but you’re definitely significantly increasing your risk. Well, if that’s the average American,
1:39:201 hour, 39 minutes, 20 secondsthen what’s the average American’s chance of ending up in I guess causation needs to be established.
1:39:241 hour, 39 minutes, 24 secondsYeah, of course. And it depends what else they’re having as well. But but it’s definitely putting them at significant increased risk of type 2 diabetes. I think the figure now in
1:39:321 hour, 39 minutes, 32 secondsAmerica, if I’m not wrong, is that a third to a half of adult Americans now are um pre-diabetic.
1:39:401 hour, 39 minutes, 40 secondsum the the broad so to answer your question in in a better way because we’re already there unfortunately
1:39:481 hour, 39 minutes, 48 secondsum the way to understand insulin resistance on a personal level in terms of measurements
1:39:561 hour, 39 minutes, 56 secondsbody measurements is something called metabolic health and there are five components which are very easy to measure of metabolic health okay um it’s your waist circumference
Chapter 29: How much is the average American increasing their risk of getting heart disease?
1:40:041 hour, 40 minutes, 4 secondsright it’s your blood triglycerides which is a form of the cholesterol being above 1.7 mill moles. Okay. Um, it’s
1:40:121 hour, 40 minutes, 12 secondsyour HDL cholesterol, the good cholesterol being less than 1 mill.
1:40:161 hour, 40 minutes, 16 secondsIt’s being pre-diabetic. Okay. Having a HBA1C of more than 5.7%.
1:40:231 hour, 40 minutes, 23 secondsUm, or being prehypertensive, so your blood pressure is above 120 over 80 average. If you have um three of those
1:40:321 hour, 40 minutes, 32 secondsthat are abnormal, you have something called metabolic syndrome. puts you at the highest risk of heart disease and at least 50% if not more patients admitted with heart attacks will have metabolic
1:40:401 hour, 40 minutes, 40 secondssyndrome. But all those five parameters being in the normal range in America
1:40:471 hour, 40 minutes, 47 secondsonly one in eight adults have all of those in the normal range and only one in four people aged between 20 and 40.
1:40:551 hour, 40 minutes, 55 secondsThink about that for a second.
1:40:571 hour, 40 minutes, 57 secondsSo seven out of eight yes adults will have abnormal metabolic health. If we
1:41:031 hour, 41 minutes, 3 secondswithin a year, if we just shifted a little bit people’s eating habits and let’s say we eliminated ultrarocessed
1:41:101 hour, 41 minutes, 10 secondsfood, we got people to eat more nuts and seeds, oily fish, you know, whole fruit and vegetables, it’s been estimated that
1:41:181 hour, 41 minutes, 18 secondsyou would half the death rates from heart disease within globally within one year from 20 million to 10 million.
1:41:241 hour, 41 minutes, 24 secondsYou’d be out of business as a heart doctor. Um,
1:41:311 hour, 41 minutes, 31 secondsthere’s still be a lot of people to treat. We got to help the other 10 million as well, right? But but I think the other thing as well is um what it does Steve though is it shifts the age.
1:41:401 hour, 41 minutes, 40 secondsSo instead of someone having saying a dying prematurely having a heart attack at the age of say 65, you know, they’ll live to 85. So all we’ll be doing as
1:41:491 hour, 41 minutes, 49 secondsdoctors is we’ll be managing older people. But that’s fine. You know, we’ve improved longevity, improved quality of life as well. You refer to stress as a silent killer.
1:41:571 hour, 41 minutes, 57 secondsIt’s something we’re not addressing, I think, as a society. So, to give put it in perspective, when you look at risk factor for heart disease, risk factors for heart disease, um the major ones are
1:42:061 hour, 42 minutes, 6 secondssmoking, type two diabetes, high blood pressure. The risk of heart disease linked to stress, chronic stress of more
1:42:141 hour, 42 minutes, 14 secondsthan a moderate degree is actually the same as being a smoker or having high blood pressure or having type two diabetes. And most people, I think, are
1:42:211 hour, 42 minutes, 21 secondsnot managing it. And certainly of all the patients I see, all the heart patients I see, invariably all of them
1:42:291 hour, 42 minutes, 29 secondshave had over the preceding years before their heart attack stress stress levels that are quite high. What’s the mechanism?
1:42:371 hour, 42 minutes, 37 secondsSo from an evolutionary perspective,
1:42:431 hour, 42 minutes, 43 secondsif we were acute stress can be a lifesaver, right? If we were running away from a saber-tooth tiger, right?
1:42:501 hour, 42 minutes, 50 secondsThen what happens is the body produces clotting factors and inflammatory markers uh factors in the blood that if
1:42:581 hour, 42 minutes, 58 secondswe were attacked they help reduce the risk of us bleeding to death. So imagine now imagine that happening chronic stress. You’ve got a lowgrade what we
1:43:051 hour, 43 minutes, 5 secondscall chronic inflammation and clotic factors increase. And that’s been shown actually in proven in um a study that was published in the Lancet a few years
1:43:121 hour, 43 minutes, 12 secondsago where they did an MRI of the brain of of young healthy people, adults, and
1:43:191 hour, 43 minutes, 19 secondsthey followed them up but they looked at the their subjective stress score. They did like um questionnaires to measure
1:43:271 hour, 43 minutes, 27 secondstheir stress levels subjectively. They correlated that with looking at the amygdala in the brain which is the emotional center and then they looked at
1:43:351 hour, 43 minutes, 35 secondsclotting factors and they even looked at heart attacks further down the line and there was a perfect correlation with the subjective stress score the amydala
Chapter 30: Stress is a silent killer
1:43:421 hour, 43 minutes, 42 secondslighting up the clotting factors in the blood the inflammatory markers in the blood and heart attack. So we we’ve got the plausible mechanism. So if that’s the case Steve there must be a way of
1:43:511 hour, 43 minutes, 51 secondscurbing it and well how does one do that? Well, the two most important causes of stress in society are work and relationship stress. So, those are things people can potentially work on,
1:44:011 hour, 44 minutes, 1 secondright? Potentially, but it’s just be aware of it. But one of the interventions that I use with my patients um is actually breath work and meditation.
1:44:101 hour, 44 minutes, 10 secondsAnd one of the most extraordinary bits of research that I came across and it’s in our documentary as well because we go into a bit more detail on
1:44:171 hour, 44 minutes, 17 secondsit. I had to go and see it for myself to believe it actually properly believe it.
1:44:211 hour, 44 minutes, 21 secondsum a cardiologist in India for more than 20 years has been um through a lifestyle
1:44:281 hour, 44 minutes, 28 secondsapproach has been reversing heart disease. So he did a study called the Mount Abu that is a place in northern India uh where he’s got a huge community
1:44:361 hour, 44 minutes, 36 secondsin a hospital people come to see him there and um he puts him through this lifestyle plan which in this study was that you know they’re devout Hindus so
1:44:441 hour, 44 minutes, 44 secondsit was a high fiber vegetarian diet it was two 30-minute brisk walks a day okay and something called Raj yoga meditation for 40 minutes
1:44:531 hour, 44 minutes, 53 secondswhich is a form of breath work but it’s also a bit of a spiritual transformation as well it’s about understanding where your anger comes from and all that kind
1:45:001 hour, 45 minutesof So it goes quite deep. And anyway, he followed these people up who were diagnosed with at least 50 to 70%
1:45:071 hour, 45 minutes, 7 secondsblockages in their arteries. They had heart disease. For some reason, they didn’t want to have a um a bypass operation or a stent or they couldn’t
1:45:151 hour, 45 minutes, 15 secondsafford it and they wanted this lifestyle plan. So he put them on a lifestyle plan. He repeated their angagrams after 2 years, right? He looked at the arteries again and on the people that
1:45:241 hour, 45 minutes, 24 secondshad adeared to the plan, there was an average reduction of the blockage of 20%.
1:45:291 hour, 45 minutes, 29 seconds70% became 50, 50 became 30. This is unheard of. If you ask any cardiologist, can heart disease reverse saying, “No,
1:45:351 hour, 45 minutes, 35 secondsI’ve never even seen it. It’s not possible, right?” But he showed this to be the case. He then looked at his data a bit in a bit more detail and said, “Was it the diet? Was it the exercise,
1:45:441 hour, 45 minutes, 44 secondsthe two or was it the stress reduction?”
1:45:461 hour, 45 minutes, 46 secondsThe only of course they’re all important, but the only independent factor for the reversal of the blockages was 40 minutes of Raj Yoga meditation per day.
1:45:571 hour, 45 minutes, 57 secondsNow I asked him, you know, he published this data in what we call a um an observational study. It wasn’t what we call a randomized trial where it was just more rigorously done. And he said,
1:46:071 hour, 46 minutes, 7 seconds”Why have you not done the randomized trial?” Said, “I have years ago.” And he showed me the data. And I was like,
1:46:121 hour, 46 minutes, 12 seconds”Wow, why didn’t you publish this anywhere? I couldn’t get it published.”
1:46:161 hour, 46 minutes, 16 secondsHe invited and I could be wrong about it. It was a it was senior it was a senior cardiology society. can’t
1:46:241 hour, 46 minutes, 24 secondsremember if the American Heart Association but it was a scenist cardio society in America to um he invited them to India so he could present his data he presented his
1:46:331 hour, 46 minutes, 33 secondsdata to them and they basically thought it was fascinating but in between the lines they said to him you know we can’t
1:46:411 hour, 46 minutes, 41 secondspublish this because it will affect our stent business and what’s a stent business stent is basically the heart stance like
1:46:481 hour, 46 minutes, 48 secondsas in it would you know I remember Steve when I first um wrote an article the first sort mainstream media article I wrote with in 2011
1:46:571 hour, 46 minutes, 57 secondswas me it was in the Observer newspaper I’d met Jamie Oliver having written to him saying can you sort hustle food out and then I end up writing an article
1:47:041 hour, 47 minutes, 4 secondscalled I mend hearts then I see our hospitals serve junk food to my patients uh basically saying listen we’re going to tackle this obesity epidemic tackle
1:47:121 hour, 47 minutes, 12 secondsheart disease we need to sort the diet out and I remember one of the cardiologists um who I knew a senior cardiologist I was still a junior doctor
1:47:201 hour, 47 minutes, 20 secondsat this point kind of tongue and cheek but many truths spoken in just said it seem this is going to affect our our business our stent business as in
1:47:281 hour, 47 minutes, 28 secondsoperating on people as if it was a bad thing that I was saying that we should basically prevent heart disease right there’s a cultural problem here Steve honestly I’m not this is this is a this
1:47:361 hour, 47 minutes, 36 secondsis a um a dirty secret if you like within medicine unfortunately amongst establishment figures is that they have
1:47:441 hour, 47 minutes, 44 secondsbecome so wedded and so close to these tyrannical corporations or their own self-interest that you know we’re
1:47:521 hour, 47 minutes, 52 secondsmissing a big trick here in terms of what we can really do for patients.
1:47:561 hour, 47 minutes, 56 secondsIn part, your other book here that I have, I still can’t pronounce this word.
1:48:011 hour, 48 minutes, 1 secondPop popy diet. Pop.
1:48:031 hour, 48 minutes, 3 secondsYour popy diet, I guess, serves to address many of these issues and to make sure that our heart hearts stay healthy.
1:48:091 hour, 48 minutes, 9 secondsWhat I wanted you to do for me is if I’m endeavoring to have a a good heart health until I die, which I guess is
1:48:161 hour, 48 minutes, 16 secondskind of impossible, but maybe I’ll get hit by a truck or something. Um, if I’m endeavoring to have good heart health,
1:48:211 hour, 48 minutes, 21 secondswhat should my daily rout in an optimal situation? What should my daily routine look like if I follow the diet that you came up with, but also
1:48:301 hour, 48 minutes, 30 secondsif I’m thinking through all of the potential things that can cause bad health? Sleep. I wake up. So, I sleep for seven hours.
1:48:361 hour, 48 minutes, 36 secondsSo, at least 7 hours sleep. Great. Tick. Okay. Um, eating real food.
1:48:421 hour, 48 minutes, 42 secondsOkay. So, breakfast is how many how many meals a day should I have? Well, two to three, whatever suits you. When you feel hungry, eat till you’re full.
1:48:501 hour, 48 minutes, 50 secondsNot seven, eight, nine, not no just eat, you know, and also I suppose if you’re doing activity, then you may, but the most important thing is to avoid the ultrarocessed food and not to have too much starch.
Chapter 31: What should my daily routine be for a healthy heart?
1:48:591 hour, 48 minutes, 59 secondsWhat about fasting? Um, controversial area, mixed data. Um,
1:49:061 hour, 49 minutes, 6 secondsI think that in terms of, you know, I have patients who feel benefit from fasting and other people feel more stressed. It depends where you are in
1:49:141 hour, 49 minutes, 14 secondsyour life. If for example you’re very active and your sleep isn’t good actually fasting can make your stress levels worse which is not good. It causes cortisol to increase and there is
1:49:231 hour, 49 minutes, 23 secondssome data showing that happens. So it depends where you are but I’m not averse to fasting. It depends you know see how people feel.
1:49:291 hour, 49 minutes, 29 secondsOkay. So I’ve woken up. I’ve had seven hours of sleep. I’ve eaten breakfast which was whole foods. So yeah and and Okay. So I would say you
1:49:361 hour, 49 minutes, 36 secondsknow whole fruit and vegetables ideally um a mixture of of low sugar fruits if you can ideally you know berries mixed berries for example
1:49:441 hour, 49 minutes, 44 secondsif you can get at least five to seven portions in that’s great um the the foods that are thought so the the anti-inflammatory foods that have
Chapter 32: Fasting for optimising our health
1:49:531 hour, 49 minutes, 53 secondsgot a reasonable body of evidence behind them are things like extravirgin olive oil is your base fat okay nuts and seeds
1:50:001 hour, 50 minutestree nuts almonds walnuts um hazelnuts for example oily fish at least a couple of times a week,
1:50:081 hour, 50 minutes, 8 secondsright? And then I would say minimizing, you know, the starch and the sugar, okay?
1:50:141 hour, 50 minutes, 14 secondsAnd the rest of it doesn’t matter. You can have, you know, I have heart patients ask me whether they can eat a steak. I say absolutely it’s not going to cause, you know, it’s very nutritious. If you want to have a steak two or three times a week, no issue.
1:50:221 hour, 50 minutes, 22 secondsSaturated fat in the diet isn’t a problem. I busted that myth. So butter,
1:50:261 hour, 50 minutes, 26 secondscheese, for example, um red meat is not going to have any adverse effect on your heart.
1:50:321 hour, 50 minutes, 32 secondsOkay. So I’ve eaten my breakfast. You want to enjoy your food as well, right?
1:50:351 hour, 50 minutes, 35 secondsYeah. So, that’s my sleep taking care of my meals that day taken care of.
1:50:391 hour, 50 minutes, 39 secondsWhat else do I need to be thinking about to optimize heart health?
1:50:421 hour, 50 minutes, 42 secondsWell, I suppose you got to think about what level it’s very subjective. You know, if you’re stressed and if you’re stressed, then you need to think about what can you do about it.
1:50:511 hour, 50 minutes, 51 secondsAnd there are different things. Some people find exercise um is good. Some people do yoga, they do pilatees, some people do breath work. So, try and find
1:51:001 hour, 51 minutesI have an app called Calm which I listen to. I I do at least 20 to 30 sometimes 40 minutes of breath work every morning when I wake up. It’s the first thing I do. Actually,
1:51:091 hour, 51 minutes, 9 secondsI’m going to do both. I’m going to do breath work and I’m going to go for a long workout.
1:51:141 hour, 51 minutes, 14 secondsCould is there such such a thing as too much exercise?
1:51:171 hour, 51 minutes, 17 secondsYeah. Unfortunately, yes. About 11% of elite athletes by the time they reach 50 will have scans that show very severe blockages or a heart disease, right? Um,
1:51:301 hour, 51 minutes, 30 secondsand I think Steve, to be honest, it might be genetic predisposition, but I think a lot of those people, cuz I have some of these people coming to me who don’t know why they’ve got diagnosed with heart disease. And I remember one
1:51:381 hour, 51 minutes, 38 secondslady I saw a few months ago, and she was running something like something crazy like 5 to 10 miles a day, but on only 4 hours sleep, and she
1:51:481 hour, 51 minutes, 48 secondswas young and otherwise didn’t have a diabetes or anything else, but had heart disease, had developed heart disease.
1:51:511 hour, 51 minutes, 51 secondsAnd I said, “This is probably because of this.” So uh I think that when you look at heart disease and optimal levels of exercise, it is actually the one thing I
1:52:001 hour, 52 minutesthink the guidelines are right about is probably that 150 minutes of moderate activity a week. So you know I again I I follow my own advice and I [snorts] will
Chapter 33: Is there such a thing as too much exercise?
1:52:091 hour, 52 minutes, 9 secondsum you know I I used to run but you know running can be quite damaging to the knees especially as you get older. So I I cycle and do exercise bike and whatever else and I will get my heart
1:52:181 hour, 52 minutes, 18 secondsrate to about 115 beats a minute for 30 minutes you know five times a week. One study found that marathon runners experience a frequency of heart attacks
1:52:251 hour, 52 minutes, 25 secondsand strokes similar to people who already have heart disease suggesting too much exercise is harmful which is in your book statinfree. And um another
1:52:351 hour, 52 minutes, 35 secondsstat here is athletes who do more than one hour of intense exercise per day,
1:52:391 hour, 52 minutes, 39 secondsfour times um have four times the frequency of breathing infections per year compared to those who do moderate activity.
1:52:451 hour, 52 minutes, 45 secondsWell, that’s the other thing about overex exercising. Well, it depresses the immune system. That’s well known. Uh and in fact if you look at and a lot of people do it for different reasons but if you look at the the communities
1:52:531 hour, 52 minutes, 53 secondsaround the world known as the blue zones Steve you know where people have high longevity. These people weren’t pounding it in the gym. They’re just outside you know they were gardening they were
1:53:001 hour, 53 minutesmoving. You don’t need to be doing all of that kind of stuff. People do it for different reasons. I mean I I do it sometime. Oh also for mental health it’s good. You um didn’t you publish an article?
1:53:091 hour, 53 minutes, 9 secondsYou co-authored an article for the British Journal of Sports and Medicine called It’s Time to Bust the Myth of Physical Activity. Yeah. Physical inactivity and obesity.
1:53:181 hour, 53 minutes, 18 secondsYou can’t outrun a bad diet. That was the title of the article. And the point was, and we make it very clear at the beginning, that exercise has many benefits for health, but weight loss is
1:53:271 hour, 53 minutes, 27 secondsnot one of them. Because most of what determines your weight gain, almost all of it is to do with with what you eat. And that discussion or that thinking,
1:53:351 hour, 53 minutes, 35 secondswhether it was about burning calories actually came from the food industry. They they they they manufactured that.
1:53:401 hour, 53 minutes, 40 secondsUm Coca-Cola, McDonald’s, they would push this. They even the Olympic Games 2012, they were the main sponsors,
1:53:461 hour, 53 minutes, 46 secondsright? because for them they want to distract from their unhealthy products and say well the obesity epidemic is being driven by people not you know not exercising.
1:53:541 hour, 53 minutes, 54 secondsSo on that day on this perfect day that I’m creating in my mind I’m eating well I’ve moved but not too much. I’m doing breath work in the morning. I’ve slept 7
Chapter 34: Exercise doesn’t help with weight loss
1:54:031 hour, 54 minutes, 3 secondshours a day and the last thing that from looking at your 21-day immunity plan is socializing.
1:54:101 hour, 54 minutes, 10 secondsYeah. So so important. I think one of the most important aspects for mental health, physical health is the quality of our relationships, friends, family.
1:54:191 hour, 54 minutes, 19 secondsUm people may laugh at this, but I actually I actually prescribe hugging to a lot of my patients. Uh especially couples, you know. Um there is
1:54:271 hour, 54 minutes, 27 secondsdefinitely some benefits from that, you know, uh and uh in terms of reducing cortisol levels, etc. I think that’s an an issue in society in general. You know
1:54:361 hour, 54 minutes, 36 secondswe become we have been conditioned in a way to think that we can just be dependent on ourselves as individuals and we don’t need other people but
1:54:441 hour, 54 minutes, 44 secondsactually we do this is that’s how we evolved partly because it helps us it helps us feel safe hugging I think it just it just yeah there is it
Chapter 35: The importance of socialising on our health
1:54:541 hour, 54 minutes, 54 secondsactivates parts of the brain the protection soothing mechanisms of the brain and I think that is just an extra element of it absolutely
1:55:021 hour, 55 minutes, 2 secondsand they it reduces cortisol and all those things so it’s going to stave heart attacks. If we hug, we have less chance of having a heart attack.
1:55:091 hour, 55 minutes, 9 secondsIt’s not not just about that. I think it’s also good for the immune system. So the the people that did the original cold studies on on cold viruses, this was done, I think, in early 2000s.
1:55:181 hour, 55 minutes, 18 secondsFascinating study. They inoculated people with a cold virus. So they put the the traditional cold virus whatever into into people’s, you know, nasal
1:55:261 hour, 55 minutes, 26 secondspassages and they looked at who developed symptoms of a cold and who didn’t. And they looked and and before they did that, they did these questionnaires based upon several
1:55:351 hour, 55 minutes, 35 secondsdifferent aspects of people’s social life. Are they involved in community activities? How often do they meet their friends? What’s it like with their
Chapter 36: Why you need to start hugging more
1:55:421 hour, 55 minutes, 42 secondspartner? Etc., etc. And the people who had the highest scores, only one in three of those people developed a cold.
1:55:491 hour, 55 minutes, 49 secondsAnd the people on the other side that were more maybe more lonely and weren’t interacting with other people who didn’t have good quality relationships, two out
1:55:561 hour, 55 minutes, 56 secondsof three of those people developed colds. So, it’s not just about heart disease, it’s about the immune system as well.
1:56:021 hour, 56 minutes, 2 secondsOverall health makes you think, doesn’t it, if loneliness really is killing us. Yeah. Um,
1:56:061 hour, 56 minutes, 6 secondswe need to try and do more to end the epidemic that is loneliness cuz the stats seem to suggest it’s going one way and it’s not a good way.
1:56:131 hour, 56 minutes, 13 secondsUm, and part of that issue as well,
1:56:151 hour, 56 minutes, 15 secondsSteve, which is a something we need to think about with what’s going on society [snorts] is I do we’ve got a worsening mental health crisis. We’ve got less
1:56:231 hour, 56 minutes, 23 secondstrust in government. One of the ways societies progress is people being able to trust each other by people not being
1:56:311 hour, 56 minutes, 31 secondsafraid to speak the truth. And more than ever, and certainly I’ve seen it in medicine, we have got to a situation and the COVID vaccine is a microcosm of
1:56:401 hour, 56 minutes, 40 secondssomething much bigger where people are afraid to speak the truth. And that gives us an element of uncertainty, distrust, and it makes us more stressed.
1:56:491 hour, 56 minutes, 49 secondsSo what this means, what it comes back to is ultimately part of the solution to the mental, physical, social well-being
1:56:561 hour, 56 minutes, 56 secondscrisis, heart disease is thinking about acting from a place of virtue and ethics, right? Thinking about, you know,
1:57:051 hour, 57 minutes, 5 secondsyour intentions, being honest, not manipulating other people for money.
1:57:081 hour, 57 minutes, 8 secondsThis is unfortunately where the the the capitalist system or the current economic system has taken us and the corporatization of human beings as a result. And that is very detrimental to our physical and mental health.
1:57:191 hour, 57 minutes, 19 secondsWhat was your father’s name? Kash. Kash. Son, never change your loyalties.
1:57:321 hour, 57 minutes, 32 secondsYeah, loyalty was very important to him.
1:57:341 hour, 57 minutes, 34 secondsYou know, those I was brought with those core values about um honesty, integrity,
1:57:391 hour, 57 minutes, 39 secondsbeing loyal to people, how to be a good human being, how to be the best version of yourself, Steve. Um, that’s what it’s
1:57:461 hour, 57 minutes, 46 secondsabout, you know, for your benefit and for the benefit of others.
1:57:501 hour, 57 minutes, 50 secondsHe said that to you when you were younger and you were considering switching football team. Um, he told you to never change your loyalties. And you
1:57:571 hour, 57 minutes, 57 secondsdes I’ve got the eulogy you wrote for your father when he passed away here.
1:58:021 hour, 58 minutes, 2 secondsAnd it’s interesting some of the the words and phrases that you used in the eulogy to him because they seem to be quite pertinent to our conversation today. The ultimate purpose of knowledge
Chapter 37: What do you think your dad would be thinking?
1:58:091 hour, 58 minutes, 9 secondsis to reduce human suffering. And that true wisdom to achieve that end only comes from dialogue.
1:58:171 hour, 58 minutes, 17 secondsYeah, that was uh that was a Socratic Socrates quote. True wisdom comes only from dialogue. Um,
1:58:251 hour, 58 minutes, 25 secondsunderstanding others starts from understanding oneself. And to get to a greater truth, one has to be able to
1:58:321 hour, 58 minutes, 32 secondsquestion one’s own beliefs. And to get there, to achieve that, you have to engage uh with other people and have
1:58:401 hour, 58 minutes, 40 secondsdiscussions. but from a place of compassion where you are open to listening to other people because we can only get to a greater truth if you listen to all different sides on a
1:58:491 hour, 58 minutes, 49 secondsparticular issue and that comes from having that conversation. So I think that’s a huge component of it all which I think we’re losing Steven society there’s so much polarization you know.
1:58:581 hour, 58 minutes, 58 secondsYeah, and that’s yeah, I completely agree and you know it’s it’s difficult obviously because um conversation can be
1:59:051 hour, 59 minutes, 5 secondsfatal. It can be um especially medical conversation conversation about things like vaccines or health information. So
1:59:131 hour, 59 minutes, 13 secondsit’s very delicate information but um the what can also be fatal is the lack of conversation i.e. not seeing ideas
1:59:201 hour, 59 minutes, 20 secondscollide. And it’s it’s interesting as someone who speaks to a lot of health professionals on this podcast, I’m not an expert in health and people will often criticize me for that and say, you
1:59:291 hour, 59 minutes, 29 secondsknow, um this they said this thing wrong or this thing wrong. But I think the place that I’ve got to now is to present every opinion that I can. Yeah.
1:59:371 hour, 59 minutes, 37 secondsAnd hopefully to will people to be able to make up their own minds. And I hope I tried to uh present some of the other
1:59:441 hour, 59 minutes, 44 secondsside of um the at least the rebuttals so people can can be curious and we don’t we’re not pushing in any particular direction. I have no bloody dog in the
Chapter 38: The power of conversation
1:59:521 hour, 59 minutes, 52 secondsfight. I don’t you know and I’m not I want to have that conversation, Steve. I think part of the problem with all of this is that that conversation isn’t even happening. We want to have that conversation. We want rebuttals. We want a count of view.
2:00:012 hours, 1 secondYeah.
2:00:022 hours, 2 secondsBut the ignoring of even the conversation that for me is is is unforgivable.
2:00:072 hours, 7 secondsIt’s a shame. I think podcasts are doing a good job of kind of well I think a lot of them are doing a good job of just having that conversation. Yeah.
2:00:132 hours, 13 secondsUm because it’s long form and there’s I mean there’s a there’s a comment section so people are going to discuss below and there’s you know there’s lots of podcast
2:00:212 hours, 21 secondsthere’s lots of information being thrown out into the world and um everything we’ve talked about today will be linked below as much of the the links as we
2:00:292 hours, 29 secondscan. So, if anybody is curious about anything we’ve discussed or any stats, you’ll send me your stuff. Absolutely.
2:00:342 hours, 34 secondsAnd I’ll link it below and I’ll I’ll link the NHS and the British Heart Foundation and anyone else below so people can have a think about that. But
2:00:412 hours, 41 secondsI am a big fan of conversation and I’m a big fan of having both sides of an argument and trying to make my own mind up on things and find the nuance. I find
2:00:502 hours, 50 secondsthe truth is usually somewhere in the middle. Yeah.
2:00:522 hours, 52 secondsSo, I think it’s important because, you know, one of the things I think we have to we have to reflect on is some of those amazing people you talked about like Martin Luther King and I don’t know
2:01:002 hours, 1 minutewhether it’s the suffragettes or Gandhi or whoever it might be, their ideas in their time were received equally
2:01:062 hours, 1 minute, 6 secondshorrifically and um now those are things that we all consider to be true and very important as it relates to maybe science or just social issues on equality. So
2:01:162 hours, 1 minute, 16 secondswith that in mind, we have to also be humble to the fact that idea that might be important might at first offend us.
2:01:232 hours, 1 minute, 23 secondsIt might trigger us. It might be counter to the public narrative or or to the current available science. But I don’t think it should be censored.
2:01:322 hours, 1 minute, 32 secondsNo. And I I would say that people listening to this just think about one thing. One of the reasons that we seek
2:01:402 hours, 1 minute, 40 secondsthe truth and greater truths is that a life lived in darkness has no meaning.
2:01:482 hours, 1 minute, 48 secondsAmen. We have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest not knowing who they’re going to be leaving
2:01:542 hours, 1 minute, 54 secondsit for. And the question left for you is of all the most amazing superstar people you have met in your life,
2:02:042 hours, 2 minutes, 4 secondswhat was the quality that made them superstars? And can it be taught?
2:02:112 hours, 2 minutes, 11 secondsA love for humanity.
2:02:142 hours, 2 minutes, 14 secondsThat was a quality that made them superstars in whatever they were doing.
2:02:182 hours, 2 minutes, 18 secondsIt was to give back to society in some way. Whether it was entertainment,
2:02:232 hours, 2 minutes, 23 secondswhether it was music, whether it was sport, but based upon a love for humanity.
2:02:342 hours, 2 minutes, 34 secondsStands up to be true. I just went through a list of superstars that I know of in my brain and I think that’s certainly the case. And it’s funny cuz the people that I think of as real superstars aren’t necessarily famous.
Chapter 39: The last guest question
2:02:412 hours, 2 minutes, 41 secondsThey’re not rich. They’re not anything like that. They’re just like the best people, the ones that I really aspire to be more like. But the one that made them stand out for me, the one quality that
2:02:502 hours, 2 minutes, 50 secondsmade them extra special in th those particular people um was despite them
2:02:562 hours, 2 minutes, 56 secondsbeing so excellent is they had a huge uh um a wonderful humility about them and they can find you everywhere,
2:03:092 hours, 3 minutes, 9 secondsespecially on Twitter. Got a big Twitter following. Um and your books as well. I will link your books below in the description for anybody that wants to read them. I’ve
2:03:172 hours, 3 minutes, 17 secondsthese two books in particular, the one that I can’t pronounce, the Pop Pop diet, a 21-day lifestyle plan. Lose weight,
2:03:262 hours, 3 minutes, 26 secondsfeel great, and drastically reduce your risk of type two diabetes and heart disease, and a statin-free life, a revolutionary life plan for tackling heart disease without the use of statins are two that I’d certainly really,
2:03:352 hours, 3 minutes, 35 secondsreally recommend. Thank you, Dr. Thank you for the work you do, the way that you do your work, and thank you for having the courage to be a [snorts] loud
2:03:452 hours, 3 minutes, 45 secondscounteracting voice in society where we do need counteracting voices. I don’t think anybody can ever argue with that.
2:03:502 hours, 3 minutes, 50 secondsAnd the way in which you do it and your intentions of doing it, I think are wonderful. Um, and I think they’re a real credit to the two wonderful people
2:03:582 hours, 3 minutes, 58 secondsthat raised you. So, thank you for your time today. Thank you for doing the work that you do. I’m going to continue following it. I follow you on Twitter and I’ve been following you for many,
2:04:042 hours, 4 minutes, 4 secondsmany years, I think, I believe. Um, and I very much enjoy consuming your information because I know that you don’t you have there’s a certain
2:04:122 hours, 4 minutes, 12 secondsfearlessness with you that is going to deliver what is true regardless of consequence. And that is a useful source
2:04:202 hours, 4 minutes, 20 secondsof information to have in my world where I’m I’m trying to advance my thinking and I care more about progress and truth than I do something feeling comfortable.
2:04:282 hours, 4 minutes, 28 secondsSo, I highly recommend everyone go check you out on Twitter as well. [music] Heat. Heat. N.
2:04:392 hours, 4 minutes, 39 seconds[music]
2:04:432 hours, 4 minutes, 43 secondsHeat. Heat. [music]
2:04:462 hours, 4 minutes, 46 seconds[singing]
2:04:502 hours, 4 minutes, 50 seconds[music]

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